Strong supporters

[North Texas Golfer]

And Bill Snyder had losing seasons 4 of his first 5 seasons. Guess K-State should have fired him.

Bear Bryant and Woody Hayes didn't win big until their 4th season.

It takes time. The age of the Internet has ruined the ability for fans to understand perspective.

Think about everything people have said in this thread.

- Barely any talent or very young talent.

- Passed up by A&M, TCU, and Baylor.

And you think Texas is going to get a big name coach after firing one midway through his second season who has a ton of respect in the coaching community? Who wants that when the money is almost negligible now with TV money. What's really the difference between $3 and 5 million of you are at a comfortable place in your career?

I am sure that there are examples on both sides of the argument. I don't think it's a for sure given that it takes times. Just an opinion.

 

[utisdabomb12]

I mean, come on, Western Kentucky just put an ass-whooping on Rice today. You can't tell me that WK has more talent than Texas. I am not buying it.

I don't think you understand how bad our talent level is. 

Western Kentucky dropped 35 on Indiana who almost beat Ohio State today. I don't know enough about WK's defense, but I would probably take every one of their positional groups on offense over ours (they actually have some good OL and WRs). I think we have more talent, but it's all young talent. 

I'm not exaggerating when I say right now I would take almost every positional group on offense for Western Kentucky over ours. It's not even close at OL, QB, WR, TE to be honest. 

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I believe that the Texas schedule is rated as the toughest in the country.  How's that for educating freshmen.

It is and we may get to experience "worst case scenario" after the OU game. 1-5 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

I don't think you understand how bad our talent level is. 

Western Kentucky dropped 35 on Indiana who almost beat Ohio State today. I don't know enough about WK's defense, but I would probably take everyone of their positional groups on offense over ours (they actually have some good OL and WRs). I think we have more talent, but it's all young talent. 

I'm not exaggerating when I say right now Western Kentucky is more talented than we are on offense. It's not even close at OL, QB, WR, TE to be honest.

I don't think you understand how bad our talent level is. 

Well, it's been years since I missed seeing a game so I think I have a pretty good understanding of our talent level. And I have no clue about Western Kentucky's talent level. But I really find it hard to believe that their talent level is higher than Texas. Maybe, just maybe, they are better coached.

 

[Randolph Duke]

And you think Texas is going to get a big name coach after firing one midway through his second season who has a ton of respect in the coaching community? Who wants that when the money is almost negligible now with TV money. What's really the difference between $3 and 5 million of you are at a comfortable place in your career?

And you think allowing a mid-major coach who isn't recruiting well and can't coach up players more time is going to make taking over the pig of a program that UT has become any more enticing?!
Charlie Strong is supposedly a defensive coaching genius and he has cemented himself as the head of the worst defense in the history of the program after only 5 games into the season?!

It is amazing how people believe a failure will turn into a success if only given more time to fail.

 

[utisdabomb12]

I don't think you understand how bad our talent level is. 

Well, it's been years since I missed seeing a game so I think I have a pretty good understanding of our talent level. And I have no clue about Western Kentucky's talent level. But I really find it hard to believe that their talent level is higher than Texas. Maybe, just maybe, they are better coached.

It's not just Western Kentucky. Our talent level outside of the FR class and a few other guys isn't better than really anyone in the country. 

Why do you think we struggled with a team like Rice? Coaching shouldn't matter in a game like that, you should be able to just line up and out talent them. We couldn't. We aren't much more talented than a team like Rice, it is what it is. 

 

[MikeV73]

It's not just Western Kentucky. Our talent level outside of the FR class and a few other guys isn't better than really anyone in the country.

Why do you think we struggled with a team like Rice? Coaching shouldn't matter in a game like that, you should be able to just line up and out talent them. We couldn't. We aren't much more talented than a team like Rice, it is what it is.

At least we have higher SAT scores than Ric.....whoops.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

It's not just Western Kentucky. Our talent level outside of the FR class and a few other guys isn't better than really anyone in the country. 

Why do you think we struggled with a team like Rice? Coaching shouldn't matter in a game like that, you should be able to just line up and out talent them. We couldn't. We aren't much more talented than a team like Rice, it is what it is.

I don't disagree that our talent level is pretty bad. But I'm also not convinced that our coaching talent is all that great either.

That being said, I am not advocating that Charlie be fired at all. Any coach should get a minimum of 3 years. But you had better start showing progress and be competitive by that 3rd year.

 

[utisdabomb12]

But I'm also not convinced that our coaching talent is all that great either.

I'm not convinced either. It's impossible to judge them right now because our talent level is so terrible. 

This is why I was always in Watson's corner. Watson was never the problem. Norvell and Bedford aren't the problem right now either. If you don't have talent you won't win games regardless of how good the coaching is. Norvell is going to struggle just like Watson struggled because we have guys like Hutchins, Doyle and Flowers on the offensive line. 

 

[GBT]

Have you listened to David Thomas on LHN ? He is being very PC with his bashing of our offensive coaches. Our defense is a cluster **** with even our seasoned veterans looking like crap.

Keeping Charlie will only put us deeper in the hole we are in UNLESS he fires some coaches and replaces his OC and DC with quality people.

 

[UTfish]

Read what I said...I said four years IF they didn't embarrass us like the joke Charlie is putting out there.

I would be all for Charlie getting three recruiting classes or four if he had shown us his staff knew how to coach this team to be competitive.....Not a champion or contender...JUST COMPETITIVE ....Instead we get what we saw at ND and today to go along with the Rice game and OSU......next week I'll be at the Cotton Bowl watching The Red River Raping.....SMH.......

Charlie messed up when he fired Mack's staff and hired his own. Got rid of the wrong coaches and hired the wrong coaches.....

I stand corrected.  You did have that big "if" in there.

Agreed, it was painful to watch, but were we really embarrassed by our coaches, or were our young defensive players taken to school by a Heisman candidate with a good O-line and very good receivers and the number four team in the country?  Maybe Norvell is not the answer as OC right now, but just what do you expect Charlie to do?  Replace him with a really good OC who just happens to be unemployed?

I just went through two major operations.  Yes, they were painful, but they were necessary for me to get better.  It will take six months for me to even begin learning to walk again.  But I know I will be fine again.  It will just take some time and patience on my part.

We all feel your pain, my Longhorn brother, but I urge you to be patient and give Charlie a little more time. Things will get better.  We will be well again.

 

[Chris Flanagan]

I am sure that there are examples on both sides of the argument. I don't think it's a for sure given that it takes times. Just an opinion.

I get it. And (just my opinion) it looks bad to fire a coach who hasn't been given a chance to get it right.
Brady Hoke and Will Muschamp were supposed to be the best thing ever at each of their schools. Both going to the Sugar Bowl and recruiting well. Then failed to build on that success.

Charlie Strong has had everything go wrong, no recruiting momentum or at least a momentum that gets the top recruits. He is getting program building players playing a schedule typical of a CFB playoff contender. So going 1-4 is not shocking. It could be 3-2 but it isn't. It's 1-4. He might have one of his prized recruits go to the hated rivals after half a season.

Nothing is going right. That can beat you down. Or it can be a Let's see where it goes.

 

[GBT]

We keep hearing how it all starts on the OL and DL from Bedford and Strong etc.... So why in the world didn't Charlie recruit five quality JUCO OL and four quality JUCO DTs last year to start on our lines ???? Surely these great coaches who are supposed to lead us to glory in 3 or 4 years could see we needed better players.???......Nearly every UT fan darn well could see that since 2010....Why couldn't Charlie ?

 

[streettopeschel]

We were down 30-0 after one quarter. At some point 'some regression was expected', 'growing pains', 'it's Macks fault' and 'be patient, it's a process' ring kinda hollow.

 

[MikeV73]

We keep hearing how it all starts on the OL and DL from Bedford and Strong etc.... So why in the world didn't Charlie recruit five quality JUCO OL and four quality JUCO DTs last year to start on our lines ???? Surely these great coaches who are supposed to lead us to glory in 3 or 4 years could see we needed better players.???......Nearly every UT fan darn well could see that since 2010....Why couldn't Charlie ?

Maybe those awesome JUCO players opted to play elsewhere. Our one highly rated OL recruit (Hodges?) hasn't even taken the field this year I believe. RS year maybe?

 

[utisdabomb12]

We keep hearing how it all starts on the OL and DL from Bedford and Strong etc.... So why in the world didn't Charlie recruit five quality JUCO OL and four quality JUCO DTs last year to start on our lines ???? Surely these great coaches who are supposed to lead us to glory in 3 or 4 years could see we needed better players.???......Nearly every UT fan darn well could see that since 2010....Why couldn't Charlie ?

I mean in an ideal world it's probably best to land the #1 recruiting class and land all the elite JUCO talent, but that's just not going to happen. Strong got plenty of talent in the '15 class. If you are judging Strong on landing talent you should be in his corner based on the '15 class. 

FWIW, I actually think taking JUCO guys is the wrong approach right now. We need guys that are going to be in the system for 4 and 5 years to develop. Thinking short term is the wrong play here. That's why I was actually hoping both JUCO OL would RS. 

Trying to put a band aid on the problem isn't going to fix the problem. You have to burn the ship down and start over from the ground up. I just don't think the JUCO approach is a good one at all. Maybe it makes us a little better in the short term, but it won't significantly help us unless we can land all the JUCO talent out there. Thinking about this long term is the only way we will fix this. These short term solutions won't fix it. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

We were down 30-0 after one quarter. At some point 'some regression was expected', 'growing pains', 'it's Macks fault' and 'be patient, it's a process' ring kinda hollow.

Completely agree. I need to see Strong with more than one recruiting class on the field before that rings true with me. 

 

[TeamMayhall]

[Tweet =https://twitter.com/SmileHeardJ/status/650410472613675008]

IMO, Wickline and the OL should be apologizing to Heard

 

[DMAC]

Unfortunately, Norvell isn't the problem just like Watson wasn't the problem. I knew a switch to a new OC in the long term wouldn't fix much. I think Heard gave us a jolt of optimism because he was a bad match up for Cal (I will say I still have optimism in Heard). 

At the end of the day when you have to start guys like Doyle, Hutchins, and Flowers on the OL you aren't going to do much of anything. The only way you go about fixing this problem is to upgrade the talent in recruiting. Like Watson, it's difficult for me to even judge Norvell because the offensive line can't block. 

That's why I've continuously said it's premature to fire any coordinators. I have no clue if Bedford, Norvell, or Watson end up as great coordinators but trying to judge them with the talent we have is impossible. 

I get what you are saying but Wickline is a terrible recruiter.  Other than Conner Williams he hasnt brought in much producing talent in 2 recruiting cycles.  I know most are going to say Vahe but that was an original Mack Brown recruit and he stuck with his pledge as a stand up guy.  I like both Vahe and Williams, but Doyle shouldnt be playing.  Other than the 2 freshman this OL sucks and Wickline isnt developing them as he was known for at OSU.

We lost Weathersby last year and have yet to get any good OL recruits this year, except for Tope.  Knowing how bad the OL situation was Strong should have hired a good recruiter for the OL.  I was always impressed by the  OSU line when Wickline was at OSU but he hasnt shown any magic in converting under developed kids here at Texas.  I expected more from him.  He has had plenty of time to get them developed to atleast average.

 

[drgilbert]

This has been an interesting discussion on who to blame for our terrible play. Either the coaches suck and should be fired or we have young inexperienced players with no talented players in the upper class. Both sides have made some good points. I think it is a mixture of both. We have had some poor coaching decisions and some poor performances from our players. I like CS and I hope he can turn it around. He needs to fix something this week in practice. Good luck CS and Hook'Em!