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*****TEXAS vs. KANSAS GAME THREAD*****

Being pissed off, I'd imagine. Not a lot of rational thought going on right now.

We're 5-2 and we have problems. Lets see if Herman solves them and saves the season.
We have have problems. LOL I can't argue with that.

I do disagree with your framing that the fans who are upset  is not showing rational thought. The Texas fans had the same reaction in 2012 after UT scored with 17 seconds left to beat Kansas 21-17 and Mack could not fixed it since he was gone the next year. 

A year ago Oklahoma had the same rated defense as we do now and they fired Stoops. Now they have the 28th rated defense in the country. 

I agree let's see if Orlando and Herman can fix the 109th rated defense in the country. If we sweep the rest of our games including the Big 12 championship game then this is just a bump in the road.

Thank goodness we have you  to remind us when we post irrational thoughts.

 
We have have problems. LOL I can't argue with that.

I do disagree with your framing that the fans who are upset  is not showing rational thought. The Texas fans had the same reaction in 2012 after UT scored with 17 seconds left to beat Kansas 21-17 and Mack could not fixed it since he was gone the next year. 

A year ago Oklahoma had the same rated defense as we do now and they fired Stoops. Now they have the 28th rated defense in the country. 

I agree let's see if Orlando and Herman can fix the 109th rated defense in the country. If we sweep the rest of our games including the Big 12 championship game then this is just a bump in the road.

Thank goodness we have you  to remind us when we post irrational thoughts.
It's not the content that is irrational. Its when it is the only thing you have to say and just rinse and repeat over and over again.

We get it. You're pissed. I am, too. I'm just content with seeing where it goes. This is the same coach that beat Georgia earlier this year.

 
It's not the content that is irrational. Its when it is the only thing you have to say and just rinse and repeat over and over again.

We get it. You're pissed. I am, too. I'm just content with seeing where it goes. This is the same coach that beat Georgia earlier this year.
Kinda like them trying the same scheme over and over and it failing?!?!  Georgia was predictable.  I want to see them try something different.  Employ a 4 man front.  Try getting pressure with DEs getting upfield.  Make qbs step up into a pocket and see if one of your guys can get him.  I’m tired of the same crap they keep trying.  It puts entirely too much pressure on a depleted secondary.  

 
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We lost alot of experience from last years team.  Talent rarely makes up for experience. 

Texas shouldnt be in the top 25.  I am having my doubts on Orlando but not necessarily on Herman.

 
We lost alot of experience from last years team.  Talent rarely makes up for experience. 

Texas shouldnt be in the top 25.  I am having my doubts on Orlando but not necessarily on Herman.
^^^This. I tend to give the coach a bit of a break when fielding an inexperienced D. And the injuries, especially concentrated so heavily in the DB room, multiply the slack given.

That said, Coach O really needs to step up to give his D a smoking chance schematically.

They keep playing D like they have the past few games and Top 25 will be in the rear view as they will likely drop a couple games to otherwise very beatable teams.

 
The only way to stop big 12 offenses is to put pressure on the quarterback. No matter how many men drop back in coverage if the quarterback has all day eventually someone gets open. We should be in a four-man front. And at times we should rush 5, 6 or even seven. You’ve got to make the quarterback throw before the receivers can make their cuts and get open. Getting pressure is the only time we force incompletions, and we never do that with a three-man front.

 
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The only way to stop big 12 offenses is to put pressure on the quarterback. No matter how many men drop back in coverage if the quarterback has all day eventually someone gets open. We should be in a four-man front. And at times we should rush 5, 6 or even seven. You’ve got to make the quarterback throw before the receivers can make their cuts and get open. Getting presser is the only time we force incompletions, and we never do that with a three-man front.


A four man front is really designed to stop the run game. I don't think we're executing this defense really way, but I still think it's better designed to stop what the B12 mostly does.

Putting more speed on the field allows for better matchups across the board, preventing awkward matchups of DEs having to cover speedy slot receivers (for example). You can still bring more dudes if you want and apply more pressure in this defense, so a 4 man front isn't the only way to bring pressure. 

Maybe we should be playing less man defense with young DBs, putting them in zone to keep the pressure off individual performances. We're getting inconsistent play from our LBs, which haven't been solid in a long time. 

I don't know how to fix everything, but ultimately having more speed on the field at all times should be better in the B12 than having more power. 

 
The fourth man on the line of scrimmage doesn’t have to be a typical defensive lineman. It could be a linebacker. The point is we’ve got to rush at least four if not more.

 
The fourth man on the line of scrimmage doesn’t have to be a typical defensive lineman. It could be a linebacker. The point is we’ve got to rush at least four if not more.
If that's a linebacker then your running a 3-4. That's already close to the 3 front set they run now, with a strong safety taking the traditional role of a linebacker in that scenario. That makes the defense faster sideline to sideline, but loses some of the strength up the middle.

Honestly once teams stopped using fullbacks, the need for that kind of strength in the linebacker wasn't really needed. Offenses have gotten faster, so defenses need to be faster. 

 
The only way to stop big 12 offenses is to put pressure on the quarterback. No matter how many men drop back in coverage if the quarterback has all day eventually someone gets open. We should be in a four-man front. And at times we should rush 5, 6 or even seven. You’ve got to make the quarterback throw before the receivers can make their cuts and get open. Getting presser is the only time we force incompletions, and we never do that with a three-man front.
This, this, 1000 times this!  Again, we’ve been through this with the run and shoot of the 80s / 90s.  Texas initial reaction was to remove DL in place of LBs and replace LBs with DBs. The result was giving up 60+ a couple times.   

For grins watch the 1990 Texas UH game.  We throttled them by leaving the DL in tack and not allowing the QB time to throw.  Giles knows, he was on that DL.  

 
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This, this, 1000 times this!  Again, we’ve been through this with the run and shoot of the 90s.  Texas initial reaction was to remove DL in place of LBs and replace LBs in place of DBs. The result was giving up 60+ a couple times.   

For grins watch the 1990 Texas UH game.  We throttled them by leaving the DL in tack and not allowing the QB time to throw.  Giles knows, he was on that DL.  
That was a great game (my first to see in person). However getting pressure on the QB is not a guarantee. Didn't work so well when we went up against Miami later that year. Some teams handle it better than others, and some pass rushers are better than others.

In others words... just putting more men in the box does not always directly equate to sacks or QB pressures. Then you struggle even more to defend the edges. 

By no means am I saying this is easy. However the answer to speed is still... more speed. 

 
That was a great game (my first to see in person). However getting pressure on the QB is not a guarantee. Didn't work so well when we went up against Miami later that year. Some teams handle it better than others, and some pass rushers are better than others.

In others words... just putting more men in the box does not always directly equate to sacks or QB pressures. Then you struggle even more to defend the edges. 

By no means am I saying this is easy. However the answer to speed is still... more speed. 
True... regarding the Miami game... but I disagree with your conclusion.  The key is ultimately your DL and not your DBs. The run and shoot was new - and it seemed to be unstoppable.  Teams were trying to slow down their own offenses to keep the UH O off the field and on defense match their smurfs with additional DBs. Texas was the first to load the LOS and go after the QB like they did.  This was basically Buddy Ryan’s theory against the pass.  

The larger point is that you live or die with pass rush and not coverage.  

 
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The largest ball of twine sits in Cawker City, Kansas. There is 1.6 million feet of twine in the ball.

 
True... regarding the Miami game... but I disagree with your conclusion.  The key is ultimately your DL and not your DBs. The run and shoot was new - and it seemed to be unstoppable.  Teams were trying to slow down their own offenses to keep the UH O off the field and on defense match their smurfs with additional DBs. Texas was the first to load the LOS and go after the QB like they did.  This was basically Buddy Ryan’s theory against the pass.  

The larger point is that you live or die with pass rush and not coverage.  
I agree that if you can generate a pass rush it's much better than to trying to 'out coverage' somebody. But what happens when you can't? I don't think Texas has the personnel for it right now. Even good defenses sometimes have to generate QB pressure from blitzes. 

Outrushing the run/shoot was possible because those teams got small and didn't have TEs, or other large bodies, to take on the extra large rushers. It's the same reason that offense had problems in the red zone, and ultimately stopped being used. But these offenses today are different, using TEs, h-backs, or larger slot blocking receivers to seal edges and pick up rushers.  So I don't know if the same solution would work now. 

Ultimately if you can get to the QB... somehow... that's the key to disrupting these offenses. What seems to have worked best (both against us and others) are blitz packages the keep QBs guessing all game. I think that can be accomplished without 4 down rushers because we've seen it done successfully.

However, it *is* more complicated and dependent on scheme than individual effort. We've seen these current offenses stick around for quite a while, with no real apparent defensive solution to stopping them.

I will concede that if could recruit big beef on the d-line then it would make more sense to move that direction, but we haven't been able to for a while. We can, though, recruit a lot of good dbacks. So a defense centered around them makes more sense right now.  

 
No it doesn’t. Just look at the results. I don’t care how many damn lineman you have you have to be rushing more than 3 players toward the qb. That’s my point.
I agree with you there. Whichever defense we go with has to create more pressure on the QB. With the current defense that's a collection of blitzes.  

Sometimes it gets torched, though. The 3rd and long lsu had at the end of the game we brought everyone to get pressure. That didn't turn out so well. 

Overall problem is we are in an offensive era and conference. Winners will be defensive innovators in response to the new offenses. No one really has that figured out yet. 

 
Reading the back and forth, I agree with a lot that has been said. My question is:

Do we not have the personnel to exert pressure on the QB and hold the edge against a running game? Or is it the scheme? Personally I think it might be a little of both. TQ has not lived up to expectations. Neither has Roach for that matter, but we know he has shown the ability dominate the OLineman in front of him. The 4i technique is designed to clog the middle and funnel everything outside where the LB's can pursue and the safeties crash to the LOS. It is asking too much for a DE to play the inside shoulder of the OT and contain. If TO won't change from the 3-3 at least he should consider letting his DE's play a 5 technique on the outside shoulder of the OT.

 
That was a great game (my first to see in person). However getting pressure on the QB is not a guarantee. Didn't work so well when we went up against Miami later that year. Some teams handle it better than others, and some pass rushers are better than others.

In others words... just putting more men in the box does not always directly equate to sacks or QB pressures. Then you struggle even more to defend the edges. 

By no means am I saying this is easy. However the answer to speed is still... more speed. 
I left that UH game pissed we were going to lose.  Heard a huge roar walking back to my apartment and missed the interception near the goal line that sealed the Texas win.  LB Norman Watkins I believe?  

 
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I left that UH game pissed we were going to lose.  Heard a huge roar walking back to my apartment and missed the interception near the goal line that sealed the Texas win.  LB Norman Watkins I believe?  
Ok, my game was a bit later than the 1990 UH game on second thought.  Was 1995 I believe.  I was still pissed though?

 
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