Strong supporters

[utisdabomb12]

The funniest thing about the insidetexas article you posted is that they gave Vahe an A-, Williams a B, Flowers a C-, Doyle a D, and Hutchins a D-. 

Why is that the two freshman are the best offensive lineman on the team that keep improving.....oh yeah, they have talent. 

 

[DMAC]

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree,  I will say our upperclassmen are not very talented.  That being said, even physically inept players should be able to learn the mental aspect of assignments and blocking schemes.  They are college students after all.  To say every player on our entire roster except for the true freshmen are Zero talent is taking it to the extreme.  Even if it was true then why did CS hire Wickline knowing we needed an exceptional recruiter.

 

[DMAC]

The funniest thing about the insidetexas article you posted is that they gave Vahe an A-, Williams a B, Flowers a C-, Doyle a D, and Hutchins a D-. 

Why is that the two freshman are the best offensive lineman on the team that keep improving.....oh yeah, they have talent. 

Well he also gave Duke Thomas a B so there goes the "Grade" credibility.  I was referring more to the assignments statement.  Maybe he is grading on a curve.

We may be picking at associations of talent.  We are disagreeing on the belief it takes talent to learn assignments.  Wicklines past included many OL which were not 5 stars but played smart and scrappy.  He developed hidden gems.  I just dont buy the fact that Doyle is so bad he cant learn a blocking assignment.  Its either Doyle is mentally challenged or the coaches are not teaching the kids in manner in which they learn the scheme.

 

[GBT]

Strong had months to see what he had, and just as long to go get some GOOD JUCO OL to play last year and this year...What did he do ? Got some who needed a RS...WTH ? Why would you take a guy from JUCO who needed a RS ???? Knowing he needed defensive help...No JUCO DLs, DBs,  LBs, etc...??? .

The most glaring thing is that the staff talked about how the DL was a strength, and it actually sucks.....That is a RED FLAG. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree,  I will say our upperclassmen are not very talented.  That being said, even physically inept players should be able to learn the mental aspect of assignments and blocking schemes.  They are college students after all.  To say every player on our entire roster except for the true freshmen are Zero talent is taking it to the extreme.  Even if it was true then why did CS hire Wickline knowing we needed an exceptional recruiter.

1-Fair enough. I don't think we have much talent outside of the freshman class. Almost every draft analyst agrees with me. There's a couple pieces, like Ridgeway, but there isn't much. 

2-I think the Wickline hire was a perfect hire, and still do. This shit show isn't going to be fixed in one or two years. He needs a coach that takes the same approach Wickline took at Oklahoma State. I'm not even pessimistic about the offensive line. Matter of fact, I think we will have the best offensive line we've had in years next year with Vahe, Perkins and Williams. The thing I don't get is this narrative that Wickline isn't a great recruiter......Williams is probably the best player on our team. No Wickline isn't landing 5 star guys, but if he lands 1 or 2 more guys like Williams who gives a damn? 

 

[HornEsch]

I'm not going to act like I read all of this thread, but I get the gist.

All I know is we can argue if Charlie should be fired now or given X amount of time to get it right all we want. However the more games like we had this past weekend where we are not even competative in any sense, will subtract from whatever that X amount of time is. Right or wrong you don't get too many of those before someone with the right amount of pull says, to hell with this.

I'm a fan of Charlie and personally thinks he at very least needs another year, but even my support for the man gets rocked when our team plays like this and I'm a nobody who has no pull.

 

[DMAC]

The most glaring thing is that the staff talked about how the DL was a strength, and it actually sucks.....That is a RED FLAG. 

I dont always like your delivery GBT.  But this statement has some truth to it.

 

[DMAC]

I'm not going to act like I read all of this thread, but I get the gist.

All I know is we can argue if Charlie should be fired now or given X amount of time to get it right all we want. However the more games like we had this past weekend where we are not even competative in any sense, will subtract from whatever that X amount of time is. Right or wrong you don't get too many of those before someone with the right amount of pull says, to hell with this.

I'm a fan of Charlie and personally thinks he at very least needs another year, but even my support for the man gets rocked when our team plays like this and I'm a nobody who has no pull.

I love Strong.  I know its hard to see that in my posts but I am serious.  How can you not love the guy?  My heart breaks everytime I see him wipe the sweat off his bald head while he looks down at the mic in disgust as he answers question in post game.  He is a stand up guy and I would want my son to play for him.  I want him to succeed but something isnt clicking at all.  The mental mistakes and the team being unmotivated and unprepared is a bad sign.  

Its probably a little bit of everything, players, assistants, preparation, etc.  

When your Head Coach looks lost after a blowout its NOT a good sign going forward.

 

[bierce]

If he is ousted after this season it will be due to Brown leaving a dumpster fire to build upon.

No, it would be due to a combination of Brown leaving a dumpster fire, Strong making some poor hiring decisions, Strong not making connections with the powers and influences, and Strong not doing enough with the roster he inherited and the time available to make additions to the roster and coaching his team in a fashion that it would play better, and some poor individual performances that might or might not be the sort of thing for which one blames the coach. 

There are no absolutes here.  There is simply a myriad of problems.  Mack Brown deserves a lot of blame still, but he doesn't deserve all of it. 

 

[UTfish]

Well said and I respect that.

Me, too. Thanks, and my sincere apology to NTG and any of my brother fans I offended with my rant. That was certainly not my intent.

I truly believe that every member of this board is a good and passionate fan and a good person. That's why I joined this site.

I am not questioning your fanhood or integrity when I say I believe that some are giving Charlie too short a rope. That's all.

I just let my passion make me overstate my case. For now, I will tone it down and take NTG's advice that he, politely, did not give and SHTFU. Lol

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Lets take for example Doyle.  While we both agree Doyle shouldnt even be starting.  Explain to me how Doyle lined straight up against the DT for TCU but Doyle shifted left at the snap to help the left guard block his man and let his guy run up the middle untouched to sack Heard on 3rd for 8 yard loss.  Is that talent driven?  More like blocking assignments which are taught by coaches.  Letting a DT sack your QB because you cant block physically is one thing letting him run right by you because you never intended to block him is not a talent problem.

Forget understanding why he starts. I never understood why we recruited him.

Part of "talent" is what you have between the ears. If it ain't there, it ain't there. Hence, a higher talent is a smarter talent. So yea, it's talent driven.

 

[DMAC]

Forget understanding why he starts. I never understood why we recruited him.

Part of "talent" is what you have between the ears. If it ain't there, it ain't there. Hence, a higher talent is a smarter talent. So yea, it's talent driven.

Like I stated earlier, talent as in physical or mental?  I dont understand our playbook is cut and slimmed down and College student athletes cant grasp the concept of blocking assignments.  We are not just talking about one or two guys such as Doyle.  The argument is the entire roster OL except for 2 freshman.  

This sounds more like excuses than a legitimate reason especially when our Horns lost the first quarter 30 - 0 to a team that gave up 37 to SMU and TCU had just as many freshman or new starters on defense as we had.  

Lets stop and let this SINK in so there is no doubt.   T H I R T Y    to     Z E R O   after 13 minutes of play.  ZERO on a defense that gave up 37 to SMU.   Letting TCU average a score every 2:40 seconds in the first quarter of play and that is not Time of Possession but game play!

That is not just a mental or physical talent problem that is also a preparation problem, a motivation problem, and yes essentially becomes a teaching issue.  

 

[MikeV73]

When the Steelers can scout a kicker, I'll care what they think.

I'm a Steelers fan and completely agree Blake! Rough football season for me thus far, looking forward to the Steelers coming through and mentally preparing for a solid Longhorn hoops season.

 

[TeamMayhall]

FWIW; Higdon of Horns Digets has stated on many recent occasions that the OL coach is the primary problem on Offense

I specifically asked him if the OL talent was the problem or the Position Coach..

He responded

"Coach"

 

[TeamMayhall]

I think what some fail to realize is the lack of mental discipline Charlie Strong inherited with this team roster. Yes when it comes to national recruiting rankings and four and five star athletes; the classes look good on paper. But during Daje Johnson's All Access interview he explained that he failed 3 drug tests and Charlie Strong still gave him a chance. So imagine how much of a head case the other players must have been that Charlie Strong had to release. Also imagine the challenge of changing the mindset of entitlement the other Mack Brown players on the roster may have.

Sounds like the Team was apparently full of privileged pot head cancers.

Not to mention the current Kendall Sanders / Meander sexual assault case among others

 

[North Texas Golfer]

No, it would be due to a combination of Brown leaving a dumpster fire, Strong making some poor hiring decisions, Strong not making connections with the powers and influences, and Strong not doing enough with the roster he inherited and the time available to make additions to the roster and coaching his team in a fashion that it would play better, and some poor individual performances that might or might not be the sort of thing for which one blames the coach. 

There are no absolutes here.  There is simply a myriad of problems.  Mack Brown deserves a lot of blame still, but he doesn't deserve all of it.

This is as good a summation of the situation as I have read anywhere. It's definitely a combination of things.

Lack of Talent - check

Poor staff hiring decisions - check

Poor coaching - check

These 3 things are why you have a total dumpster fire right now.

Now the dilemma is, does it get worse or better if you give Charlie 3 or 4 years. Or does it get worse or better if you "cut your losses"?

I don't know that I'm smart enough to know the answer to the dilemma.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Not that I know what it says but....Charlie and these coaches knew exactly what they were getting into.

 

[TeamMayhall]

Now the dilemma is, does it get worse or better if you give Charlie 3 or 4 years. Or does it get worse or better if you "cut your losses"?

I don't know that I'm smart enough to know the answer to the dilemma.

I know right. Makes my head hurt to even try to access it all. lol

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Like I stated earlier, talent as in physical or mental?  I dont understand our playbook is cut and slimmed down and College student athletes cant grasp the concept of blocking assignments.  We are not just talking about one or two guys such as Doyle.  The argument is the entire roster OL except for 2 freshman.  

This sounds more like excuses than a legitimate reason especially when our Horns lost the first quarter 30 - 0 to a team that gave up 37 to SMU and TCU had just as many freshman or new starters on defense as we had.  

Lets stop and let this SINK in so there is no doubt.   T H I R T Y    to     Z E R O   after 13 minutes of play.  ZERO on a defense that gave up 37 to SMU.   Letting TCU average a score every 2:40 seconds in the first quarter of play and that is not Time of Possession but game play!

That is not just a mental or physical talent problem that is also a preparation problem, a motivation problem, and yes essentially becomes a teaching issue.  

How do you mentally prepare something that has a quantitative limit? Lawrence Phillips was what most would call a talented tailback. Except, he couldn't spell his own name. So the "college student" thing is not indicative of what one would perceive as academic. That only works on a Stanford message board.

I think it's pretty easy to make panic-driven posts showing only one side of a narrative. For instance, you point out that lowly SMU posed more of an offensive threat than Texas. You and both know SMU can't stay on the field with Texas. But you went ahead and put it in print anyway.

We all know that Patterson moved heaven and earth to get his two players back for Saturday's game with Texas. Some sort of "arrangement" was made with the student who was assaulted and whalla, we've got a new starting defensive end instead of a walk-on. It makes me wonder how Patterson can open his pie hole every time Briles does something questionable. Patterson looked a lot like Stoops last week.

So I really can't address your last sentence since it's based on a few things you choose to look at and not a few things you probably ought to consider but don't.

It comes down to this. You're going to feel however you want to feel. A Mt Everest of facts won't sway anyone when emotions run high. I can't agree with you and feel that Charlie Strong is a very good coach or he wouldn't be at Texas. Heck, murmurs of Strong to Texas go back a long way. So it's not like we haven't eye-balled him a while. 

If you're right, then we all pretty much suck at coaching evaluation and probably shouldn't be trying to determine if a change should be made or not or even who it might entail.

 

[Hiphopopotamos]

It's gonna be tough to pacify the BMDs who weren't high on Strong in the first place with another performance like the TCU game.

This team looked ill-prepared and unmotivated

Honestly - I think Perrin taking over as interim AD will keep them at bay for as long as it takes to make a decision on Charlie.  I think the issue with the Charlie hire for many of the BMD (outside of the fact he wasn't Saban) is the way Patterson handled it and how little involvement there was from the BMD.  I expect Perrin will keep them in check for at least the short-term.  He'll give Charlie every opportunity he needs to turn this program around over the next season and a half.