Info on David Ash

[MikeV73]

Does the roster size of 35 mean that Augie will have to jettison some scholarship or partial scholarship players to hit the number? Or do we have a number of walkons who won't see the diamond and will be sacrificed?

 

[Johnstark23]

This will be tough, if not nearly impossible for Ash. I know this because of what my grandson is going through.

College baseball players, today, have usually been playing baseball since they were 5 yrs. old. By the time they reach 10 years old they could be playing year round - if you include select programs. Hard to believe, isn't it? (Remind me to tell you how this affects their growth plates - especially the pitchers)

When they are about 15, they will be playing year around for sure and preparing to make high school squads that require they work out year around, as well. The better players will be playing in premier select programs that play country wide and against the best the country has to offer.

My point being that David will be competing against these boys that are, virtually, seasoned professionals already - with YEARS of experience behind them. It's a tough row to hoe.

Doc, I have a 12 year old cousin in San Antonio who this time last year was diagnosed with a crack in the growth plate of the shoulder, apparently a fairly common phenomenon among kids hoss ashe especially those with plus velocity. But he like you stated had basically played year round for a few years now. He plays his little league at McAllister park in SA there were 4 cases of "Little League Shoulder" in that league over the last 12 months.
As to Ash. I wish him the best if his velocity is what is being reported they will find a spot for him, maybe not money, but a spot on the roster. Skip is Skip, I think he could teach mechanics to a monkey and get people out.

 

[Donald Boyles]

Does the roster size of 35 mean that Augie will have to jettison some scholarship or partial scholarship players to hit the number? Or do we have a number of walkons who won't see the diamond and will be sacrificed?

There are that many walkons.. No Scholarship players will be cut..... just the walkons..

 

[doc longhorn]

I realize times have changed since I played, but . . . I came out of a small town which had none of the benefits you mention. I threw low to mid 90s but fancied myself as a pitcher using a wicked curve as the go-to pitch.

Two years chasing a hopeless college football stint ended at a baseball tryout at SFA. And like you said, there were about 180 or so there who were mostly from the Houston area and had all the bells and whistles you mentioned. My training consisted of throwing at a square painted on the side of a well house. I had to rebuild that damned well house three times, my dad threw fits. But I would spend endless hours doing that growing up, just because I loved doing that.

So when I stepped up and threw my first pitch at that tryout, it was a heater. Some coaches gathered behind me so I showed them that wicked curve. They quickly corrected me, saying "no, throw that heater again. Nothing but fastballs."

Point is, if you have the arm, it will draw a crowd. I've heard Ash has above average velocity. Like Mike said, if that can be channeled somehow, you got something. Some can and do, some don't. In baseball, it seems every stone gets turned these days.

If you could throw a fast ball in the mid-nineties, you would get looks from every college in America - and a lot of pro teams as well.  I'm assuming you accomplished this in HS?

Most teams look for velocity first and finesse second, if at all, believing an off speed pitch can be taught, but 90 mph fast balls are a physical gift.

But here is the catch - it doesn't matter if you can throw a 100 mph fastball, if you can't pitch - and the ability to pitch makes a world of difference.

A lot of people didn't realize that Nolan Ryans fast ball was sometime wild, but the man could pitch as well.  What was incredible about Ryan was his curve ball.  He could break it off the table and he threw it in the low nineties as a true curve ball and not a slider.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

If you could throw a fast ball in the mid-nineties, you would get looks from every college in America - and a lot of pro teams as well.  I'm assuming you accomplished this in HS?

Most teams look for velocity first and finesse second, if at all, believing an off speed pitch can be taught, but 90 mph fast balls are a physical gift.

But here is the catch - it doesn't matter if you can throw a 100 mph fastball, if you can't pitch - and the ability to pitch makes a world of difference.

A lot of people didn't realize that Nolan Ryans fast ball was sometime wild, but the man could pitch as well.  What was incredible about Ryan was his curve ball.  He could break it off the table and he threw it in the low nineties as a true curve ball and not a slider.

Well, no, this is early 80s. But Gus did stop by and meet me, shake my hand and had a short talk with me. He watched me throw a bit before that. Didn't know who he was until my coach introduced us. My coach played at UT.

There were about 3-4 games where both the Reds and Phillies were parked behind the backstop with speed guns. That's the only reason I know how fast I threw. I was 14-1 as a senior, had a couple of 1-hitters and won three games in three days.

You're absolutely right about the speed. When my coach first got a hold of me as a frosh, he kept telling me "stop throwing and start pitching!"

I once reluctantly accepted a spur of the moment invite to the ballpark in Arlington. I get there and we're on 5th row behind the plate, speed gun was directly in front of me. Had no idea who was even slated to pitch. Turns out, it was Nolan Ryan vs Roger Clemens. Unforgettable night for me.

 

[Donald Boyles]

A ton of good stuff in this thread!!

 

[doc longhorn]

Well, no, this is early 80s. But Gus did stop by and meet me, shake my hand and had a short talk with me. He watched me throw a bit before that. Didn't know who he was until my coach introduced us. My coach played at UT.

There were about 3-4 games where both the Reds and Phillies were parked behind the backstop with speed guns. That's the only reason I know how fast I threw. I was 14-1 as a senior, had a couple of 1-hitters and won three games in three days.

You're absolutely right about the speed. When my coach first got a hold of me as a frosh, he kept telling me "stop throwing and start pitching!"

I once reluctantly accepted a spur of the moment invite to the ballpark in Arlington. I get there and we're on 5th row behind the plate, speed gun was directly in front of me. Had no idea who was even slated to pitch. Turns out, it was Nolan Ryan vs Roger Clemens. Unforgettable night for me.

Interesting.  I was recruited as a pitcher, myself.   Bibb Falk recruited me and I rode the bench my freshman year.  I had to quit because I wasn't smart enough to carry 18 hour course loads and play baseball.  We didn't have radar in those days, but my fastball was electrically timed at around 87 - 89 mph.  Basically I was a BP pitcher.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Interesting.  I was recruited as a pitcher, myself.   Bibb Falk recruited me and I rode the bench my freshman year.  I had to quit because I wasn't smart enough to carry 18 hour course loads and play baseball.  We didn't have radar in those days, but my fastball was electrically timed at around 87 - 89 mph.  Basically I was a BP pitcher.

I think we've all had days where we felt like BP pitcher. lol

Was cruising well through my senior season, really never was touched at all through pre-district and district games. I pitched a win over then 5A Texas High, who won the state title in that class that year.

But then we get to the playoffs and meet Hallsville. I started Game 1 of a three game series.

I don't know what they ate that morning but it had to be supercharged Wheaties. They slapped every single thing I threw up there. My fastest heater, my knee-bender breaking pitch, even my sinker - they loved it and couldn't get enough. I gave up three homers in two innings. A day I'll never forget and thankfully can chuckle about today. I got beat up pretty good that day. lol

 

[Donald Boyles]

This is what I am hearing now..

One of the Prefferred Walk ons has elected to transfer to Cisco Junior College.

Noah Lee a catcher, but can also play 3rd and 1st.. Little Surprise by this.. But, maybe they are making room...

 

[doc longhorn]

This is what I am hearing now..

One of the Prefferred Walk ons has elected to transfer to Cisco Junior College.

Noah Lee a catcher, but can also play 3rd and 1st.. Little Surprise by this.. But, maybe they are making room...

Actually, Don, if a kid has aspirations of playing pro ball, I'm not sure is Jr. college is not the way to go.  For one thing, a kid can get a full ride at a Jr. college, where he can't at a major. (this could be a reason Lee left UT)

Also, I would almost wager that San Jacinto Jr. college has probably produced more major league players than UT.  At least when Wayne Graham was there.   And let us not forget - that Jr. college is where Roger Clements matriculated from, as well.

 

[JimR]

Interesting.  I was recruited as a pitcher, myself.   Bibb Falk recruited me and I rode the bench my freshman year.  I had to quit because I wasn't smart enough to carry 18 hour course loads and play baseball.  We didn't have radar in those days, but my fastball was electrically timed at around 87 - 89 mph.  Basically I was a BP pitcher.

I played for Falk 65-67. when did you play?

 

[JimR]

This will be tough, if not nearly impossible for Ash.  I know this because of what my grandson is going through.

College baseball players, today, have usually been playing baseball since they were 5 yrs. old.  By the time they reach 10 years old they could be playing year round - if you include select programs.  Hard to believe, isn't it?  (Remind me to tell you how this affects their growth plates - especially the pitchers)

When they are about 15, they will be playing year around for sure and preparing to make high school squads that require they work out year around, as well.  The better players will be playing in premier select programs that play country wide and against the best the country has to offer.

My point being that David will be competing against these boys that are, virtually, seasoned professionals already - with YEARS of experience behind them.  It's a tough row to hoe

 year round baseball, anything year round really, is nuts. more and more, the year round stuff is being considered part of the reason young pitchers break down.

 

[doc longhorn]

I played for Falk 65-67. when did you play?

1958

 

[doc longhorn]

 year round baseball, anything year round really, is nuts. more and more, the year round stuff is being considered part of the reason young pitchers break down.

I couldn't agree more.  I blame it on delusional and ambitious parents and greedy coaches looking for sideline money.

Young people need the opportunity to grow and allow their bodies to develop naturally.

And I am old school - I believe there is a season for every sport.  Year round baseball is for pros that play for a living, and even they take breaks to allow their bodies to heal and recover.

So if professionals know it's important to take breaks, why wouldn't that common sense apply even more to the 12 year old who's growth plates are so vulnerable to damage?

 

[MikeV73]

I couldn't agree more. I blame it on delusional and ambitious parents and greedy coaches looking for sideline money.

Young people need the opportunity to grow and allow their bodies to develop naturally.

And I am old school - I believe there is a season for every sport. Year round baseball is for pros that play for a living, and even they take breaks to allow their bodies to heal and recover.

So if professionals know it's important to take breaks, why wouldn't that common sense apply even more to the 12 year old who's growth plates are so vulnerable to damage?

Read a study years ago about the specialization of kids to single sports, and the lack of cross training type activity participating in different sports. The conclusion of the study offered that kids were suffering more adult type sports injuries due to overuse and too much sport specific activity. A lack of offseason periods of rest, and decreased participation with sports emphasizing different muscle groups/activity was a culprit in their opinion. Agree with the above completely. As a physical therapist I have worked with kids with these overuse injuries and after major surgical intervention due to ligament injuries.

 

[doc longhorn]

Doc, I have a 12 year old cousin in San Antonio who this time last year was diagnosed with a crack in the growth plate of the shoulder, apparently a fairly common phenomenon among kids hoss ashe especially those with plus velocity. But he like you stated had basically played year round for a few years now. He plays his little league at McAllister park in SA there were 4 cases of "Little League Shoulder" in that league over the last 12 months.

As to Ash. I wish him the best if his velocity is what is being reported they will find a spot for him, maybe not money, but a spot on the roster. Skip is Skip, I think he could teach mechanics to a monkey and get people out.

Sorry, I just now read your comment.

Okay, folks, here you are.  This is a prime example of why a youngster should be monitored while playing baseball - or any youth sport for that matter.  A crack in the growth plate is a broken bone.  The typical cure is to let it heal itself and my advice is to take off baseball for, at least, a year. 

It goes without saying that playing year around as a 12 year old is parental negligence - plain and simple.  Give that kid a break, for god's sake.

Here is what usually happens - a 12 year old is typically coached by some daddy, who might have played a little high school or even college baseball once upon a time.  That doesn't qualify him as an expert on the physical well being of a growing young boy or girl.  That's my field.  And I'm here to tell you that ignorance and overuse is the scourge of youth sports.

.Like John has said, he cousin is athletic and has a very good arm.  So good, in fact, that his parents got visions of sugar plums and allowed him to play year around.  Being a good pitcher, his coaches used him a lot and his good arm was overused and he broke a bone.  Putting it in layman's terms,  this occurs because the boys arm was better than the rest of his body.  He was a 12 year old with a 15 year olds arm, so to speak.

Then lets consider the pitches he is allowed to throw.  Everyone says a curve ball is hard on a kids arm.  It is if it is thrown like a major leaguer.  But a kid throwing a little league tomahawk curve has less chance of hurting his arm than a kid throwing a fast ball.  And that is a fact.  Look at the stress a fast ball causes for a boy or girl's arm.  Particularly when it is thrown 60 -70 times in a game - not including warm up pitches.

It's madness.

I could rant more, but I am starting to get incoherent, so I will sign off here.

But, John, tell the kids parents to leave him alone and let him be a kid for about a year.  And get him out of that damned select ball.

 

[Donald Boyles]

 year round baseball, anything year round really, is nuts. more and more, the year round stuff is being considered part of the reason young pitchers break down.

My definition of year round baseball might be different then yours, Can you go into details??

 

[doc longhorn]

My definition of year round baseball might be different then yours, Can you go into details??

Don, I can answer this for you.  My grandson has a friend who has a brother that is 12 years old.  The 12 year old is a very good pitcher - so good that he was an annual all star in little league.  From the time he was 10 he played little league AND select ball.  When little league was done, he continued playing select up to the Christmas holidays.  He resumed select workouts in Jan. until spring ball whereby he played select in Jan. until little league commenced.  That's 11 1/2 months out of the year that the kid was throwing a baseball, in some capacity or another. 

That is pretty much year round in my book.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Little League supporter - as long as the kids are having fun.  But I sometimes wonder if it's nothing more than a vehicle for adult entertainment.

 

[Donald Boyles]

Don, I can answer this for you.  My grandson has a friend who has a brother that is 12 years old.  The 12 year old is a very good pitcher - so good that he was an annual all star in little league.  From the time he was 10 he played little league AND select ball.  When little league was done, he continued playing select up to the Christmas holidays.  He resumed select workouts in Jan. until spring ball whereby he played select in Jan. until little league commenced.  That's 11 1/2 months out of the year that the kid was throwing a baseball, in some capacity or another. 

That is pretty much year round in my book.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Little League supporter - as long as the kids are having fun.  But I sometimes wonder if it's nothing more than a vehicle for adult entertainment.

So, are we talking about little league or Select Ball..

Because kids playing select ball take November-January 31st off.. During that time these kids are doing strength and conditoning..

I don't care what selct team you are playing for, Banditos, Waco Storm, South Texas Sliders, Houston Heat, Austin Wings, Dallas Tigers, Dallas Mustangs, you name it... they all(Coaches) stress to their players to get into the weight room and the batting cage(to take care of their body and arms... To prepare for the High School season and to prep for the summer season...

 

[doc longhorn]

So, are we talking about little league or Select Ball..

Because kids playing select ball take November-January 31st off.. During that time these kids are doing strength and conditoning..

I don't care what selct team you are playing for, Banditos, Waco Storm, South Texas Sliders, Houston Heat, Austin Wings, Dallas Tigers, Dallas Mustangs, you name it... they all(Coaches) stress to their players to get into the weight room and the batting cage(to take care of their body and arms... To prepare for the High School season and to prep for the summer season...

I'm talking about both.  When one ends, the other commences. 

But I think you and I are talking about two different types of kids.  Perhaps you missed the part about the kid(s) being 10 -12 years old?  I'm not quite sure why that kid has a work out regimen to prepare for high school ball.  I do believe this kid plays for the Sliders and I ,also, believe that particular select team played in fall tournaments, as well.  I will have to check on this to make sure.