I like Charlie. A lot.

[BevoBlake]

This game left me frustrated and very upset. After reading more on this message board regarding the Refs ,  I can see that Charlie was having to play against two teams yesterday. Charlie though has to leave this game in the past now and let Perrin and others deal with the issue of the Refs.  He has to get this team moving forward up this god awful muddy, slippery, wet mountain. No time to talk about what might have been as another battle is just ahead.  I want Charlie to succeed but if he goes 3 - 9  or 4 - 8 this year I am not sure he will get the chance for a third year.  That is not my wish as I do think we are seeing improvement.  

I truly believe that Strong has a 3rd year regardless of how this season goes. If we're not a conference contender in 2016, Strong will start feeling the hot seat. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

If Perkins is out long term we need to stick with Nichelson at RT. I have no doubt Wickline wanted to redshirt both the JUCO offensive lineman, but after seeing Hutchins for a couple possessions he had no option but to play Nichelson. Getting reps for Nichelson can pay huge dividends next year. Not just for Nichelson but maybe this means Perkins will move back inside at guard. Perkins is actually pretty good at guard.

 

[Reverent Horn]

CS has been a head coach for 6 years and is 7-6 or worse in four of them, assuming we finish .500 or less this year which is looking more like a certainty. He's had only 2 impressive seasons in all of his seasons as a head coach. We are looking like a 3-9 or 4-8 team this year after a 6-7 season last year; so we have gotten considerably worse when other programs (Fl and Mi) were in the same boat and are now 4-0. (Actually, the class Harbaugh inherited THIS year was rated lower in talent than Texas'). So I'm not sure why so many of you have so much confidence in Charlie's abilities given his past and present performances, but I hope you are right. I just don't think you are.

 

[utisdabomb12]

CS has been a head coach for 6 years and is 7-6 or worse in four of them, assuming we finish .500 or less this year which is looking more like a certainty. He's had only 2 impressive seasons in all of his seasons as a head coach. We are looking like a 3-9 or 4-8 team this year after a 6-7 season last year; so we have gotten considerably worse when other programs (Fl and Mi) were in the same boat and are now 4-0. (Actually, the class Harbaugh inherited THIS year was rated lower in talent than Texas'). So I'm not sure why so many of you have so much confidence in Charlie's abilities given his past and present performances, but I hope you are right. I just don't think you are.

Yep. He didn't do great in his first two years at Louisville. Want to know why? He took over a dumpster fire much like he has here at Texas. It amazes me so many people think Strong should be winning right now with little to no upperclassmen talent and so many young guys playing. On defense alone Wheeler, Omenihu, Boyd, Malik, Hill, and Davis were getting significant reps. 6 true freshman.
I'm not surprised we are struggling to win. We suck. Just like Lousiville sucked for two years. You don't fix shit shows like this in the short term.

Michigan is starting 19 upperclassmen and 0 freshman (including RS FR). That comparison is laughable. Harbaugh was left some talent. Our upperclassmen are an absolute joke which is why you see so many freshman playing.

 

[CCausey11]

Context, an important thing. 

The 4th down play (it was 4th & 10, btw, in case facts matter in this discussion) came after Oklahoma State's offense had:

• Run 3 plays for -7 yards
• Run 5 plays for 12 yards that ended with a pick-six
• Run 6 plays for 25 yards that ended with a pick

They were not moving the ball, and Rudolph was NOT throwing the ball well. I think his hand was hurt. The announcers did as well. The coaches have eyes and consciousness, so they probably did as well. The OSU offense had not been a threat to anyone but itself. That continued to be the case, by the way — they went three-and-out on the next two series. The field goal mentioned earlier was imaginary. 

And as for flipping the field, Texas was on the OSU 39. There was no field to flip. You might gain 30-35 yards from a punt; more likely it would have been a touchback and you'd gain 14 yards. If you've ever heard of Kevin Kelley, you know why that would be pointless.

I'll entertain an argument that Texas should have punted, but to pretend that call had any affect on the game's outcome is ... let's call it wishful thinking.

Wonderful argument Ryan...my how facts change the verbal diarrhea of some of our expert coaches on this site.

 

[Reverent Horn]

Over the last four classes, Texas has out recruited Michigan in all classes but one. Last year we had upperclassmen, yet the result was basically the same. The "...but we have no talent" is a weak argument. Is the argument we have enough talent to almost win, but not enough to actually win? It seems that the excuses for his underperformance change to fit the current circumstances. Charlie dug himself quite a hole when he got here and really doesn't have the resume to instill confidence that he is able to turn things around. Even allowing for the 'freshmen' argument, that does not explain the bone headed decisions he has been making on the sidelines; or assistant coaching hires; or QB decisions, etc...

Winning in a conference as weak as the Big East is a very different thing than winning in the Big 12 or any other power conference. And winning is one thing, under-performance, even in a loss, is another. Statically we have been one of the worst teams in the nation for the last two years. Over the years, Texas has often found themselves in the position of having to play several freshmen, this is not a new thing, but almost none have had this kind of record.

Recruiting Rankings:

2012 - Texas #2 Mi - #7;

2013 - Mi - 5 Texas #24

2014 - Texas #20 MI - #31

2015 - Texas #12 MI -#50

 

[GBT]

Oh fun. I appreciate your identifying yourselves, guys.

Why was Bonney pulled? Why do opposing offenses continue to target Haines and Jinkens? What goes into making an extra point and does it involve talent? Why are the best offensive linemen freshmen? How many Big 12 running backs would start over ours and how many hands do you need to count them?

Great argument, except Oklahoma State went three plays for -4 yards after that call. In fact, they had run 14 plays for 30 yards their previous three possessions. And you disagree that our defensive line is the strongest unit of the team — NAME THE UNIT THAT IS STRONGER. 

A senior quarterback who had appeared in 21 games and had half a season of starts under his belt. And don't pretend like that's the only difference between that team and this one. That was a team with an offensive line that included two upperclassmen who are on NFL rosters, a veteran catch-everything WR named Jaxon Shipley instead of ... I can't even think of an equivalent on this roster, Mike Davis instead of Marcus Johnson, a pre-Achilles tear Johnathan Gray with Malcolm Brown and Joe Bergeron, and a defense with I believe seven upperclassmen who are now on NFL rosters (Jeffcoat, Reed, Malcom Brown, Hicks, Diggs, Phillips, Mykkele, Byndom). 

Also, this is fun revisionism. You're going to pretend anyone thought Texas might actually win the Big 12 on merit? Oklahoma State would have finished second were it not for a collapse in Bedlam shortly before the Baylor game. OSU beat Texas 38-13. Texas needed overtime to beat Clint Tricket-less West Virginia. And I don't think anyone believes Texas was actually better than that Oklahoma team they beat — the Oklahoma team that went on to dismantle Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. 

Precisely...OSU went -4 and punted putting us in a hole because they punted from their 40 instead of their own 16 freaking yard line like they should have HAD WE PUNTED THE DARN BALL !!!!!!! Again a smart coach would have played the field position game. We would have had the ball near mid-field for Christ sakes.....

 

[utisdabomb12]

Over the last four classes, Texas has out recruited Michigan in all classes but one. Last year we had upperclassmen, yet the result was basically the same. The "...but we have no talent" is a weak argument. Is the argument we have enough talent to almost win, but not enough to actually win? It seems that the excuses for his underperformance change to fit the current circumstances. Charlie dug himself quite a hole when he got here and really doesn't have the resume to instill confidence that he is able to turn things around. Even allowing for the 'freshmen' argument, that does not explain the bone headed decisions he has been making on the sidelines; or assistant coaching hires; or QB decisions, etc...

Winning in a conference as weak as the Big East is a very different thing than winning in the Big 12 or any other power conference. And winning is one thing, under-performance, even in a loss, is another. Statically we have been one of the worst teams in the nation for the last two years. Over the years, Texas has often found themselves in the position of having to play several freshmen, this is not a new thing, but almost none have had this kind of record.

Recruiting Rankings:

2012 - Texas #2 Mi - #7;

2013 - Mi - 5 Texas #24

2014 - Texas #20 MI - #31

2015 - Texas #12 MI -#50

Lol, so you are one of those people that thinks random recruiting rankings automatically translates into talent?

I'm sure you still think Sedrick Flowers is the #58 player in the country, that Peter Jinkens is the #114 player in the country, that Swoopes is a high 4 star player, that Duke Thomas is a high 4 star player, that Tim Cole is a 4 star player, and so on. Recruiting ranking snobs, like yourself, are the absolute worst because you try to justify "talent" off random recruiting rankings rather than their actual performance on the field. 

Our upperclassmen suck and we have very little talent. Want proof, go and look at projected draft orders. Some mock drafts only have 1 player being drafted over the next two years (Ridgeway). Oh yes, we are loaded with talent. 

Louisville's '11 recruiting class was ranked #28 in the country and half the class was drafted. Go and look at Texas' upperclassmen and tell me where all this talent is.....I'll wait. 

 

[Brandon17]

Lol, so you are one of those people that thinks random recruiting rankings automatically translates into talent?

I'm sure you still think Sedrick Flowers is the #58 player in the country, that Peter Jinkens is the #114 player in the country, that Swoopes is a high 4 star player, that Duke Thomas is a high 4 star player, that Tim Cole is a 4 star player, and so on. Recruiting ranking snobs, like yourself, are the absolute worst because you try to justify "talent" off random recruiting rankings rather than their actual performance on the field.

Our upperclassmen suck and we have very little talent. Want proof, go and look at projected draft orders. Some mock drafts only have 1 player being drafted over the next two years (Ridgeway). Oh yes, we are loaded with talent.

Louisville's '11 recruiting class was ranked #28 in the country and half the class was drafted. Go and look at Texas' upperclassmen and tell me where all this talent is.....I'll wait.

There is no reasoning with these people. They have zero understanding of what Texas is having to do. A complete culture change can not and will not happen over night. If we can get the same kind of play out of this recruiting class there is no reason to believe that Texas won't be contenders for the conference title next year.

 

[Reverent Horn]

The college foot ball world revolves around rankings, but since they dispel your argument you try to discredit them. I'm sure you are like everyone else and celebrate a top ranked class. By your argument, every team that plays freshmen should be 1-3. It doesn't happen. Something is very wrong with our program. We are likely to be 1-5 in a couple of weeks, but just keep whistling past the graveyard.

 

[pringlelake]

The college foot ball world revolves around rankings, but since they dispel your argument you try to discredit them. I'm sure you are like everyone else and celebrate a top ranked class. By your argument, every team that plays freshmen should be 1-3. It doesn't happen. Something is very wrong with our program. We are likely to be 1-5 in a couple of weeks, but just keep whistling past the graveyard.

I agree with all you've posted Rev. Those that truly believe that we're on the right path with nothing but a bright future remind me of the delusional Aggies back in the day when Mack Brown arrived and started kicking ass in every recruiting battle that mattered. About all Aggies could say was something along the lines "well...recruiting rankings don't matter"...and then my particular favorite "trust R.C." (repeated over and over and over)

 

[java]

Over the last four classes, Texas has out recruited Michigan in all classes but one. Last year we had upperclassmen, yet the result was basically the same. The "...but we have no talent" is a weak argument. Is the argument we have enough talent to almost win, but not enough to actually win? It seems that the excuses for his underperformance change to fit the current circumstances. Charlie dug himself quite a hole when he got here and really doesn't have the resume to instill confidence that he is able to turn things around. Even allowing for the 'freshmen' argument, that does not explain the bone headed decisions he has been making on the sidelines; or assistant coaching hires; or QB decisions, etc...

Winning in a conference as weak as the Big East is a very different thing than winning in the Big 12 or any other power conference. And winning is one thing, under-performance, even in a loss, is another. Statically we have been one of the worst teams in the nation for the last two years. Over the years, Texas has often found themselves in the position of having to play several freshmen, this is not a new thing, but almost none have had this kind of record.

Recruiting Rankings:

2012 - Texas #2 Mi - #7;

2013 - Mi - 5 Texas #24

2014 - Texas #20 MI - #31

2015 - Texas #12 MI -#50

Rev, I assure you that if the highly ranked upperclassmen were the best players, Charlie would play them. He did last year. Unfortunately for us those guys are now playing in the NFL. Guess what? They all have Strong's back. Just check out their Twitter accounts.

Night all.

 

[utisdabomb12]

The college foot ball world revolves around rankings, but since they dispel your argument you try to discredit them. I'm sure you are like everyone else and celebrate a top ranked class. By your argument, every team that plays freshmen should be 1-3. It doesn't happen. Something is very wrong with our program. We are likely to be 1-5 in a couple of weeks, but just keep whistling past the graveyard.

1-I really don't care about recruiting rankings. Our best player on the current roster is a mid range three star that was considered the #419 best player in the country (Connor Williams). Please give me some more Connor Williams over Sedrick Flowers. You keep slobbering over recruiting rankings, I'll be happy if we load up on some more players like Connor Williams. 

2-You made the argument that we have tons of talent and you've yet to justify this talent outside of recruiting rankings. Again, please explain where all this talent is? Do you think Sedrick Flower and Tyrone Swoopes are talented since you rely so heavily on recruiting rankings? 

3-Not once have I said there isn't something wrong with the program. Matter of fact, my exact point is there is something wrong with the program. It's called a talent deficiency, our roster sucks outside of the '15 class and a couple players in the '14 class.   

4-Nobody is "whistling past the graveyard". Some of us just realize the roster is a dumpster fire and not something that can be fixed 4 games in after Strong's first recruiting class. 

5-"By your argument, every team that plays freshman should be 1-3." Huh? My argument is that our upperclassmen suck and the only talent are FR. There are always teams that win with FR because they can supplement that with good players that are upperclassmen. That isn't the case here, we are pretty much reliant on the freshman to be big time contributors. 

If you think we have talent, outside the '15 class, please explain it to me. Go down the roster of Juniors and Seniors and explain to me where all this talent is. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

I'll make it easy for you. Please explain to me where all these "talented" players are from past recruiting classes? It's not that difficult to see why we are struggling if you look at the roster, it's terrible from a "talent" perspective. You keep rolling with recruiting rankings, I'll stick with what players have looked like on the field to determine talent. 

'11 class:
Malcolm Brown (gone)
Edmond (gone)
Jackson (good player, but not great)
Flowers (terrible)
Diggs (gone)
Turner (gone)
Shipley (gone)
Evans (hasn't been healthy in years)
Reed (gone)
Greenlea (gone)
Thompson (gone)
Thompson (gone)
Scott (gone)
Cochran (gone)
Ash (gone)
Mcfarland (gone)
Onyegbule (gone)
Bergeron (gone)
Moss (gone)
Hutchins (TERRIBLE)
Doyle (TERRIBLE)

-So out of the '11 class we essentially only have one player that's pretty good for us this year (Tank Jackson)

'12 class:
Gray (pretty good player but hasn't lived up to his 5 star rating at all)
Brown (gone)
Estelle (gone)
Riser (gone)
Jones (gone)
Davis (pretty good player. hasn't been spectacular but far from a bust)
Sanders (gone)
Jinkens (terrible)
Hughes (gone)
Colbert (3rd string behind a FR and SO, doesn't even play).
Thomas (pretty good player, but not great)
Brewer (gone)
Echols (3 string behind 2 FR)
Johnson (Been good so far this year, but really only his first year of great production)
Santos (terrible)
Cole (terrible)
Ridgeway (very good player when healthy)
Boyette (decent player but nothing special)
Overstreet (gone)
Norman (hasn't done anything)
Hawkins (gone)
Bluiett (not great but he's had to move positions almost every year)
De La Torre (very good blocker IMO)
Moore (gone)
Cotrrell (decent player, nothing great)
Jordan (terrible)
Ashby (gone)

-So out of the '12 class really the only players that I would say are "maybe" above average are Gray, Davis, Thomas, Rideway and De La Torre. It's probably a stretch on Thomas, Gray, and De La Torre to be honest. I do like De La Torre though.

'13 class
James (gone)
Perkins (average at best)
Raulerson (2nd string behind Taylor Doyle, yep)
Davis (gone)
Davis (2nd string behind a RS FR, and looks like about to be 3rd string behind Kris Boyd)
Oliver (terrible)
Swoopes (no comment)
Warrick (hasn't done a thing his entire career)
Hammad (gone)
Harrison (gone)
Collins (gone)
Huhn (gone)
Hughes (pretty good player)
Swaim (gone)
Meander (gone)

-So out of the '13 class the only player that is probably above average for us this year is Hughes. Raulerson might have some potential soon.

'14 class:
Roberson (has potential, but hasn't done anything yet)
Heard (looks to have potential)
Armanti Foreman (looks to have potential)
Freeman (looks to be a pretty good player)
Joe (won't surprise me if transfers out)
Catalon (gone)
Bonney (hasn't been great so far)
Ford (good player)
Bernard (meh)
Whiteley (won't really judge him, injury prone so far)
Beck (nothing special at all)
Hampton (gone)
Leonard (meh)
Cuney (terrible)
Gray (transfer candidate)
McMillon (I actually think he has some potential)
Nelson (has some potential)
Hall (good player)
Anderson (potential)
Foreman (good player, but hasn't done much yet)
Rodriguez (project)

-There's some potential in the '14 class, but it's just that potential. I think Roberson, Foreman, Freeman, Heard, Ford, Nelson, and Hall all have the ability to be pretty good players eventually.

 

[Brandon17]

All the facts and they are still going to blame Strong lol

 

[utisdabomb12]

All the facts and they are still going to blame Strong lol

The hilarious thing is they use Mack's recruiting class rankings as a justification for why Strong should be doing better, which is the exact reason Mack was fired (I.e his final recruiting classes didn't have much talent). 

You can't develop players like Doyle, Hutchins, Flowers, and so on. They just don't have talent (regardless of what they were ranked in recruiting). 

 

[Brandon17]

The hilarious thing is they use Mack's recruiting class rankings as a justification for why Strong should be doing better, which is the exact reason Mack was fired (I.e his final recruiting classes didn't have much talent).

You can't develop players like Doyle, Hutchins, Flowers, and so on. They just don't have talent (regardless of what they were ranked in recruiting).

Exactly and I love how they think it should change over night. This much of an over haul needs at least 3 years if not 4.

 

[streettopeschel]

Mack won 8,9,8 his last 3 years and was run out of town.

 

[utisdabomb12]

Mack won 8,9,8 his last 3 years and was run out of town.

He also got to coach with his players those 3 years. If Strong can't win with 2 or 3 of his own recruiting classes he deserves to be run out of town. Running a coach out of town after 1 class of his guys seems pretty quick to me (especially when the roster left over is not good).

 

[BevoBlake]

I still have hope for Lorenzo. I think he's just been a bit lost in the shuffle as he's not yet good enough to start over Johnson but also not good enough to get an automatic look over the talented batch of freshman behind him.