Crossfire - 6/13

[java]

Better late than never, I do not recall exactly where the Texas/OU game ranks nationally, but it is a top 5 draw.  I don't think it would take ESPN very long hype the Arkansas game into a top 20 position.  At least, it is a national rivalry revisited.

Street to Peschel, I am certain that you remember the rivalry.  "Just run like hell, Randy, run like hell!"  Not the press quote, but I believe that was precisely what was said in the huddle that day.  Over 22,000 at the pep rally, in Memorial Stadium, before the team left Austin.  

Oh yeah, the rivalry could easily be rekindled, and the press would eat it up.  I believe Strong will have us where we need to be in short order, but I'm not so certain about Arkie's coach, Bielema (sp?) is it.  Don't know if they hired the right guy.

If Texas and OU are on board, and if Patterson uses diplomacy, I'm betting we can get enough to go along.  There is an axe hanging over some heads in the future, no promises should be made, but it never hurts to stay on Texas and OU's good side, particularly if you are riding on their coattails.

Regarding the Aggies and precedent, sure we can reconsider them in 30 years.  Does that help?

Hugs and kisses, Aggies.

Hook 'em!

 

[java]

ok...for the sake of discussion let's say arky has put our feelers. fine, but why would the big 12 be interested? the little rock tv market? the fertile recruiting grounds of arkansas? do they really bring any monetary value (and what else really matters)?

Street to Peschel,

What would the Texas/Arkansas partnership and the OU/Arkansas partnership be worth?  Isn't that the bigger question?  Would the Texas/Arkansas game be a national game?  The OU/Arkansas game?

That could make a difference.

 

[ATX89]

Arkie's interest doesn't surprise me. Doc spells it out well. If we take one school I presume we need another for 12. Wonder who that would be?

 

[Topstarr]

This is the way I would do it.......new and old Teams to the B12

Arkansas

BYU

A$M

Nebraska

FSU / CFU

LSU....they did talk to the Big12 / Clemson

 

[doc longhorn]

On a personal basis, I like the idea of Arky being our traditional Thanksgiving game.  I just think I have a better chance of winning the lottery.

 

[BudreauReye]

On a personal basis, I like the idea of Arky being our traditional Thanksgiving game.  I just think I have a better chance of winning the lottery.

Rather this than the Aggies..

 

[streettopeschel]

Street to Peschel,

What would the Texas/Arkansas partnership and the OU/Arkansas partnership be worth?  Isn't that the bigger question?  Would the Texas/Arkansas game be a national game?  The OU/Arkansas game?

That could make a difference.

jmo, but i doubt it would have that much national appeal. 

frankly i think the ut-arky rivalry is greatly overstated. it was 56-21 in favor of UT. yes, the 15-year stretch of roval v broyles had some epic games, but before that ark was nothing to UT and largely afterward they were in 3rd behind ou and the ags as far as rivals go. it was a much bigger deal to the hillbillies than to us...or at least to me. 

adding them is expansion for the sake of expansion. 

 

[Bear19]

jmo, but i doubt it would have that much national appeal.

frankly i think the ut-arky rivalry is greatly overstated. it was 56-21 in favor of UT. yes, the 15-year stretch of roval v broyles had some epic games, but before that ark was nothing to UT and largely afterward they were in 3rd behind ou and the ags as far as rivals go. it was a much bigger deal to the hillbillies than to us...or at least.

adding them is expansion for the sake of expansion.

Personally I always viewed piggy as a better bigger rival than aggy.

 

[texasdobbs]

On a personal basis, I like the idea of Arky being our traditional Thanksgiving game. I just think I have a better chance of winning the lottery.

So your saying there is a chance....

 

[streettopeschel]

Personally I always viewed piggy as a better bigger rival than aggy.

and i can respect that. for the decade of the 60s and a couple of years beyond, the arkansas game was THE game for texas in terms of winning the swc and factored several times in the NC discussion.

my thinking is that stretch of games has over-romanticized what was really a one-sided rivalry. even more one-sided that the aggy series.   

 

[java]

For the sake of clarity, I am not in favor of expansion for the sake of expansion.  It is too difficult to get rid of non-contributors once they are on-board.  I also feel that to bring anyone else in from the State of Texas is insanity, including the Ags, because there will always be political ramifications when it's time to split the blanket.  I thought the Ags were crazy to leave for the SEC, and believe that is the way it will eventually play out. 

If the SEC could jettison the Ags for a better looking' prom date, I believe they would do it in a heartbeat.  There is no loyalty and no history there.   In the Big 12, they may have been an oddity, but at least they were part of the family, you know, the relative that is 'a little off' and no one really wants to claim.  But they were ours, for better or worse.

Gotta go lick my baseball wounds.  See 'ya later.

Hook 'em!

 

[doc longhorn]

jmo, but i doubt it would have that much national appeal. 

frankly i think the ut-arky rivalry is greatly overstated. it was 56-21 in favor of UT. yes, the 15-year stretch of roval v broyles had some epic games, but before that ark was nothing to UT and largely afterward they were in 3rd behind ou and the ags as far as rivals go. it was a much bigger deal to the hillbillies than to us...or at least to me. 

adding them is expansion for the sake of expansion. 

The national appeal was generated by the won/loss records of the teams.  Arkansas was, without a doubt, a national power.  They lost this distinction when they joined the SEC.

What everyone seems to have missed is the huge presence Arky had in the state of Texas as far as recruiting.  Like Nebraska, this talent well dried up for them when they bolted.

Like Java, I think this is the dismal prospect for aggy, when all is said and done.  Aggys main advantage is they are a Texas school and that is where it ends.

 

[DougNTexas]

Doc I am more then willing to ship a&m out of the State of Texas. Say maybe to Mississippi permanently? 

 

[echeese]

Maybe the state of Arkansas is over its hate of everything Texas (i.e., UT).  If so they would be a good addition.  I never enjoyed going to games there because the fans were so hostile.

Perhaps hate has been overcome by the years of insignificance. . . 

Wonder how long it will take Mizzu to reach the same conclusion. . . 

Since Louisville is off the table (which would be PERFECT with the Pigs) . .. Arkie and BYU. . .I can live with it. . . 

 

[java]

Everyone, I'm eventually going to post this someplace where more people can see it.  But if you recall, Cole Pittman died when his truck went off Hwy 79  about 7 miles from Franklin TX, when he was returning to Austin from Shreveport.  His dad, I believe, put up a very nice cross where Cole left the Hwy.  There has been a great deal of work along that road in the last month or two, and one of the crews evidently did a great deal of damage to the cross.

The marker was very sturdy and quite tall.  I would estimate it stood about 5 ft tall.  The cross is totally gone and the post is all that remains, even that appears to be badly cracked.  

My sister and her husband live in Franklin, and I have been down that highway several times recently.  I just replaced the laptop that crashed and will upload the pictures that I took on Saturday.  I warn you, they probably aren't very good.  The shoulder there is quite narrow, and there is quite a bit of traffic-conditions were not ideal.

If any of you know how to reach Marc or Chase Pittman, that would help.  I know Chance Mock and Cole were very close, but I would think Chance has a lot on his plate at the moment.  My brother-in-law has been quite ill, so he is not in a position to help out.

EDIT:  I just emailed someone that I believe is still in touch with Mr. Pittman and Chance.

Hook 'em!

 

[JimR]

I would love to have Arkansas back.

 

[doc longhorn]

and i can respect that. for the decade of the 60s and a couple of years beyond, the arkansas game was THE game for texas in terms of winning the swc and factored several times in the NC discussion.

my thinking is that stretch of games has over-romanticized what was really a one-sided rivalry. even more one-sided that the aggy series.   

Well, if you want to talk one sided, then you have to factor in OU and Bud Wilkinsons dominance over UT - for almost 20 years.  That's a long time.

No, Arky and OU WERE the rivalries  and aggy simply wasn't a factor.  Except for aggys.  Remember, football is cyclical and nothing remains the same.

I, personally, don't think there is a chance in hell that Arky joins the conference.  However, 5 years ago, who would have believed WVU would have joined us?

So, reciting "ifs and buts, were candy and nuts....".

I would like to see this:

The New Big 12

OU

Texas

WVU

TCU

TTU

OSU

Arkansas

Kansas State

Miami (and I hate thug U, but it makes exposure sense)

BYU (Reluctantly, because it doesn't make geographical sense for our east coast teams - but there are a lot of Mormons in the US)

Central Florida

Louisville

(note that KU and ISU are gone - this can only happen if the conference is reorganized and renamed)

At one time I thought FSU was a lock for us.  One of my connected colleagues, a FSU BMD, says differently.   He says FSU's status has changed within the ACC and they are involved in calling the shots now - as opposed to the basketball schools who did before.  National championships and the resulting money and conference exposure has altered the heirachy of that conference.  Louisville, on the other hand, covets the Big 12 and the Maryland lawsuit will decide their availability.

However, up to now a GOR has NEVER been broken.  Therein lies the rub for any ACC school bolting.

Another note on Miami.

They had their spring game in a high school stadium, this year, and they couldn't even fill it.  They are the UH of Florida, with the exception they are a nationally watched team.

TCU - this addition to the Big 12 has always been a puzzler to me.  But after thinking about it, it occurred to me that aggy may be the reason they were added, and not just to fill a slot.  TCU became another Texas team, recruiting Texas recruits, that would dilute aggys recruting classes.  The Frogs, belonging now to a stronger conference, would have more viability in Texas.

Okay, I know I am shooting for any reason for them to be included - but does anyone have a better idea?

 

[streettopeschel]

Well, if you want to talk one sided, then you have to factor in OU and Bud Wilkinsons dominance over UT - for almost 20 years.  That's a long time.

No, Arky and OU WERE the rivalries  and aggy simply wasn't a factor.  Except for aggys.  Remember, football is cyclical and nothing remains the same.

I, personally, don't think there is a chance in hell that Arky joins the conference.  However, 5 years ago, who would have believed WVU would have joined us?

So, reciting "ifs and buts, were candy and nuts....".

I would like to see this:

The New Big 12

OU

Texas

WVU

TCU

TTU

OSU

Arkansas

Kansas State

Miami (and I hate thug U, but it makes exposure sense)

BYU (Reluctantly, because it doesn't make geographical sense for our east coast teams - but there are a lot of Mormons in the US)

Central Florida

Louisville

(note that KU and ISU are gone - this can only happen if the conference is reorganized and renamed)

At one time I thought FSU was a lock for us.  One of my connected colleagues, a FSU BMD, says differently.   He says FSU's status has changed within the ACC and they are involved in calling the shots now - as opposed to the basketball schools who did before.  National championships and the resulting money and conference exposure has altered the heirachy of that conference.  Louisville, on the other hand, covets the Big 12 and the Maryland lawsuit will decide their availability.

However, up to now a GOR has NEVER been broken.  Therein lies the rub for any ACC school bolting.

Another note on Miami.

They had their spring game in a high school stadium, this year, and they couldn't even fill it.  They are the UH of Florida, with the exception they are a nationally watched team.

TCU - this addition to the Big 12 has always been a puzzler to me.  But after thinking about it, it occurred to me that aggy may be the reason they were added, and not just to fill a slot.  TCU became another Texas team, recruiting Texas recruits, that would dilute aggys recruting classes.  The Frogs, belonging now to a stronger conference, would have more viability in Texas.

Okay, I know I am shooting for any reason for them to be included - but does anyone have a better idea?

Bud Wilkensen was 9-8 vs Texas.

No, i don't have any better ideas. I'm guessing so much is liable to change, all of these realignment discussions won't resemble the finished product in the least.

 

[doc longhorn]

Bud Wilkensen was 9-8 vs Texas.

No, i don't have any better ideas. I'm guessing so much is liable to change, all of these realignment discussions won't resemble the finished product in the least.

The bulk of Wilkinsons losses were to DKR and another reason he retired from football.

 

[java]

Well, if you want to talk one sided, then you have to factor in OU and Bud Wilkinsons dominance over UT - for almost 20 years.  That's a long time.

No, Arky and OU WERE the rivalries  and aggy simply wasn't a factor.  Except for aggys.  Remember, football is cyclical and nothing remains the same.

I, personally, don't think there is a chance in hell that Arky joins the conference.  However, 5 years ago, who would have believed WVU would have joined us?

So, reciting "ifs and buts, were candy and nuts....".

I would like to see this:

The New Big 12

OU

Texas

WVU

TCU

TTU

OSU

Arkansas

Kansas State

Miami (and I hate thug U, but it makes exposure sense)

BYU (Reluctantly, because it doesn't make geographical sense for our east coast teams - but there are a lot of Mormons in the US)

Central Florida

Louisville

(note that KU and ISU are gone - this can only happen if the conference is reorganized and renamed)

At one time I thought FSU was a lock for us.  One of my connected colleagues, a FSU BMD, says differently.   He says FSU's status has changed within the ACC and they are involved in calling the shots now - as opposed to the basketball schools who did before.  National championships and the resulting money and conference exposure has altered the heirachy of that conference.  Louisville, on the other hand, covets the Big 12 and the Maryland lawsuit will decide their availability.

However, up to now a GOR has NEVER been broken.  Therein lies the rub for any ACC school bolting.

Another note on Miami.

They had their spring game in a high school stadium, this year, and they couldn't even fill it.  They are the UH of Florida, with the exception they are a nationally watched team.

TCU - this addition to the Big 12 has always been a puzzler to me.  But after thinking about it, it occurred to me that aggy may be the reason they were added, and not just to fill a slot.  TCU became another Texas team, recruiting Texas recruits, that would dilute aggys recruting classes.  The Frogs, belonging now to a stronger conference, would have more viability in Texas.

Okay, I know I am shooting for any reason for them to be included - but does anyone have a better idea?

You also left out Baylor.  That was intentional, yes?  I agree with the omission, but it's going to be a fight.  Haven't the Bears gained some political clout in the legislature of late?  

If we get backed into a corner about snubbing the Bears while keeping TCU, how do we justify it?