Big 12 vs. SEC thread

[RgrLee]

There were some comments relative to my past statement that i feel are inaccurate.

The BigXII is a very unique conf that does not equally share revenue. This has caused rifts that have caused 4 different teams to leave the conf not to include Arkansas leaving the SWC.

The SEC, as an example, shares revenue equally; even with their weak sisters. This "all for one" attitude is great for schools like Miss schools, Vandy, So. Carolina, etc. yet but has come at the great expense of Alabama, LSU and Florida.

Therefore my previous posts assume everyone understands this and also understands Texas does not play well with others and negotiates like a rabid pit bull. FSU is a big name and brings a lot to the table, yet that deal ONLY works if they bring their own tv and marketing deals with them......

TCU worked because even though they wont be treated equally here in the BigXII, the crumbs here are better than the steak served in the WAC.

Teams that come with their own packages that should have no interest in sharing those revenues are teams, such as BYU and Notre Dame and not teams like FSU. This is why I suggested smaller teams that are more in line with TCU and less like Nebraska, TAMU and a Arkansas who have over inflated views of themselves and feel they "deserve" equal revenues.

This equation isnt as vague as "chicken or the egg" because everyone knows that Texas controls the BigXII so lets not pretend the BigXII is hurting Texas.......if anything, our school has forced these issues. Texas wouldn't work at the SEC because of contracts and lawyers and not the fans, geography or anything like that.

Please stop thinking this is anything other than business. Always always always follow the money.

To grow the XII you need either schools that come "plug and play" relative to tv and marketing or schools that "know their place" and want a chance at the power 5.

 

[RgrLee]

Moxnix = doesnt matter

I'm thinking it is slang German

 

[doc longhorn]

There were some comments relative to my past statement that i feel are inaccurate.

The BigXII is a very unique conf that does not equally share revenue. This has caused rifts that have caused 4 different teams to leave the conf not to include Arkansas leaving the SWC.

The SEC, as an example, shares revenue equally; even with their weak sisters. This "all for one" attitude is great for schools like Miss schools, Vandy, So. Carolina, etc. yet but has come at the great expense of Alabama, LSU and Florida.

Therefore my previous posts assume everyone understands this and also understands Texas does not play well with others and negotiates like a rabid pit bull. FSU is a big name and brings a lot to the table, yet that deal ONLY works if they bring their own tv and marketing deals with them......

TCU worked because even though they wont be treated equally here in the BigXII, the crumbs here are better than the steak served in the WAC.

Teams that come with their own packages that should have no interest in sharing those revenues are teams, such as BYU and Notre Dame and not teams like FSU. This is why I suggested smaller teams that are more in line with TCU and less like Nebraska, TAMU and a Arkansas who have over inflated views of themselves and feel they "deserve" equal revenues.

This equation isnt as vague as "chicken or the egg" because everyone knows that Texas controls the BigXII so lets not pretend the BigXII is hurting Texas.......if anything, our school has forced these issues. Texas wouldn't work at the SEC because of contracts and lawyers and not the fans, geography or anything like that.

Please stop thinking this is anything other than business. Always always always follow the money.

To grow the XII you need either schools that come "plug and play" relative to tv and marketing or schools that "know their place" and want a chance at the power 5.

RgrLee - I love debating with you and please understand my last comment was not meant to be snarky - when I was throwing about the word "irrelevant".

But I think you didn't get the memo on conference revenue sharing.  It's true that The Big 12 used to be set up that way - in the days that aggy belonged and before they so bravely retreated to the SEC.

Today, however, the revenue sharing is based on the same model as the SEC - at least as far as the network contracts.  And of course with the exception of the LHN.  Equal shares for all members is in place.

The only reason TCU and WVU have not shared equally is because of the acceptance conditions they agreed upon.  Conference revenues for them were to be step stoned for, I think, about 3 years when they will then become fully vested like the rest of the members.

You are correct when you say that UT is the big dog of the conference - it always has been - including the old SWC.  And you could argue it is one of the 2 or 3 big dogs of the nation, for that matter.

Another point, and this is my opinion, is that the fans mean diddly to the UT admin - when it comes to re-alignment or anything else related to it's sports programs.  College football is every bit as big a business as the NFL.  And, like the NFL, it's all about the mighty dollar.  Fans be damned.

Look, I have nothing against Baylor or TCU - but both schools are sucking on the hind teats of the big dog - Texas.  And they always will.

This isn't arrogance, it's just the lay of the land.  As a departed coach once said "it is what it is".

So UT will always have the bully pulpit in the state of Texas and in any conference it joins.

That's why you won't see us move from the Big 12 unless we absolutely have to (translate this to $$$).  Right now we have our own little fiefdom whereby we can, basically, dictate the terms, gives us the best vehicle to make the CFP's and also gives us a river of money.  Why would we leave - before adding members instead?  What is the $$ advantage to UT?

I just don't see it.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I will attempt to address a few of your comments IN BOLD within your quote.

There were some comments relative to my past statement that i feel are inaccurate.

The BigXII is a very unique conf that does not equally share revenue. This has caused rifts that have caused 4 different teams to leave the conf not to include Arkansas leaving the SWC.

In the past this was true. However, now the Big12 is committed to sharing all league television contracts with ESPN and FOX equally. Newbies TCU and WVU have to wait a couple of years (3, I think) before they are fully vested. The Big12 TV contracts include Tier 1 and Tier 2 broadcasts and equate to distributions of approximately $22MM per member annually. Obviously, Tier 3 broadcasts on The Longhorn Network are not shared. UT earns approximately $15MM per year for that averaged out over 20 years of the contract with ESPN. Teams like KU and OU get $8MM+ for their T3 broadcast rights on regional FOX networks.

The SEC, as an example, shares revenue equally; even with their weak sisters. This "all for one" attitude is great for schools like Miss schools, Vandy, So. Carolina, etc. yet but has come at the great expense of Alabama, LSU and Florida.

Fun fact - neither A&M or Nebraska ever voted for equal television shares. It's documented. And newsflash, prior to the SEC Network's launch their T3 revenues weren't shared equally either. Is their revenue sharing program better? Meh...not to UT. We'll make more $$$ with our deal.

Therefore my previous posts assume everyone understands this and also understands Texas does not play well with others and negotiates like a rabid pit bull. FSU is a big name and brings a lot to the table, yet that deal ONLY works if they bring their own tv and marketing deals with them......

Damn straight. That's why UT is #1 in athletic department revenues annually. We know the value of our brand. 

TCU worked because even though they wont be treated equally here in the BigXII, the crumbs here are better than the steak served in the WAC.

TCU isn't getting crumbs. Their TV revenues quadrupled as members of the Big12 versus MWC membership. That and renewing traditional TX rivalries made the Big12 a sweetheart deal for them.

Teams that come with their own packages that should have no interest in sharing those revenues are teams, such as BYU and Notre Dame and not teams like FSU. This is why I suggested smaller teams that are more in line with TCU and less like Nebraska, TAMU and a Arkansas who have over inflated views of themselves and feel they "deserve" equal revenues.

Yes, the Big12 business model works well for a team like BYU. They'd be a natural fit because we can accommodate their BYUtv network. But, word is the Mormons are a pain in the ass to deal with.

1. They won't play on Sunday, making scheduling for every sport but football difficult

2. They play with grown-ass men who return from mission trips in their early to mid-twenties. 

3. MTN time zone is remote and travel is inconvenient for the Big12's members

Scheduling challenge + Competitive advantage + MTN = Undesirable candidate

This equation isnt as vague as "chicken or the egg" because everyone knows that Texas controls the BigXII so lets not pretend the BigXII is hurting Texas.......if anything, our school has forced these issues. Texas wouldn't work at the SEC because of contracts and lawyers and not the fans, geography or anything like that.

Please stop thinking this is anything other than business. Always always always follow the money.

No doubt. We're not a non-profit

To grow the XII you need either schools that come "plug and play" relative to tv and marketing or schools that "know their place" and want a chance at the Power 5.

Definitely some truth to this, but we won't be able to bring in a FSU or another P5 team because they've signed their TV "grant of rights" over to the ACC and respective conferences in long-term deals. I understand what you're saying about the Big12 tide potentially raising the U-LaLa boat, but there's more desirable candidates out there if we felt compelled to expand.

And, yes, it will be about money if/when that time comes. Don't buy into that aggie BS about "mean ol' UT won't share". To believe that, you'd have to believe they'd turn down a similar Aggie Network deal if offered.

I don't believe that, RgrLee...do you?

 

[doc longhorn]

LOL!  JB, you and I must have been typing at the same time.  But I won by posting first.  Nah, nah, nah, nah!

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

LOL!  JB, you and I must have been typing at the same time.  But I won by posting first.  Nah, nah, nah, nah!

Well, we both addressed his points a little differently so he'll understand a few of the fallacies he made in his post. I hope RgrLee isn't an aggie troll, because then he'll never understand. My goal is always to enlighten and entertain! 

 

[streettopeschel]

doc, JB...good points in both posts. all talks of realignments are fans finding a solution to a problem (in the eyes of UT at least) that doesn't exist. if at some point the Big 12 proves to be a competitive disadvantage to making the playoff (thus negatively impacting the bottom line) then they'd be foolish not to consider other options. until then, everybody should learn to love the status quo. 

 

[RgrLee]

I'll admit i learned a lot and it was cool how grown men could discuss those points. I had no clue the revenue parody had been renegotiated. And i want to make sure that I'm not painted as a closet ULaLa fan either......they just happened to be one of the teams I was using at the time; what i meant to say was McNeese

Its an interesting issue and to discuss it fully we'd have to have all sorts of numbers in front of us but i 100% agree that BYU isnt a fit for all those reasons and maybe more.

Smarter men than we, I would assume, have toiled over the same issues and have come up with nothing long before us doing it. In many emotional ways, i had always hoped the XII could find a place for UH. Yeah yeah yeah,i know what yall are going to say but it would be nice to watch games here in Houston and deep down im a closet UH fan; or at least ive never wished them harm.

 

[RgrLee]

And FYI, I'm many things but a troll i am not.

I never went to Ut but my great grandmother went there long, long ago for some nursing thing to help with the war effort in what would have been the 1920's. My grandfather graduated there in 1941 and his degree sits on my wall at the office. Shortly after graduating he went to war.

When my mom had me, it stopped the goal of going to college but if she had her way, it would have been in Austin.

For me, there was no way id have gone to any college much less UT because i just had to get out of school. In 1990 when we went to Iraq, i found my calling and joined the Army but i always wore burnt orange and grew up watching Earl. I bet in my lifetime ive had almost everything i use daily be branded with UT.

All 5 of my daughter have Ut this and that.....we're hardcore fans but no one alive has earned a degree to hang on the wall next to my grandpas......one day.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I'll admit i learned a lot and it was cool how grown men could discuss those points. I had no clue the revenue parody had been renegotiated. And i want to make sure that I'm not painted as a closet ULaLa fan either......they just happened to be one of the teams I was using at the time; what i meant to say was McNeese

Its an interesting issue and to discuss it fully we'd have to have all sorts of numbers in front of us but i 100% agree that BYU isnt a fit for all those reasons and maybe more.

Smarter men than we, I would assume, have toiled over the same issues and have come up with nothing long before us doing it. In many emotional ways, i had always hoped the XII could find a place for UH. Yeah yeah yeah,i know what yall are going to say but it would be nice to watch games here in Houston and deep down im a closet UH fan; or at least ive never wished them harm.

Smarter men than us decided launching a Longhorn Network was a good idea when I never believed it was feasible. My concerns were, in order: 

1. Too small an audience for a designated channel 

2. Lack of sports programming and interesting content

3. Risk alienating Big12 members (I never believed A&M, Nebraska, or Mizzou would actually leave)

With technology changing so quickly, the "conference network" business model may give way to ala carte programming. LHN will be in good position to meet our needs on all media platforms. Cable and satellite providers won't be able to gouge consumers with their overpriced sports channel bundling. 

I'm a closet UH fan, too, having grown up there (who didn't love Phi Slama Jama?). But at the end of the day, it's called Cougar High for a reason. They don't draw in a DMA with over 4MM people within a 50-mile radius. 

 

[doc longhorn]

And FYI, I'm many things but a troll i am not.

I never went to Ut but my great grandmother went there long, long ago for some nursing thing to help with the war effort in what would have been the 1920's. My grandfather graduated there in 1941 and his degree sits on my wall at the office. Shortly after graduating he went to war.

When my mom had me, it stopped the goal of going to college but if she had her way, it would have been in Austin.

For me, there was no way id have gone to any college much less UT because i just had to get out of school. In 1990 when we went to Iraq, i found my calling and joined the Army but i always wore burnt orange and grew up watching Earl. I bet in my lifetime ive had almost everything i use daily be branded with UT.

All 5 of my daughter have Ut this and that.....we're hardcore fans but no one alive has earned a degree to hang on the wall next to my grandpas......one day.

LOL,  you are hardly a troll.

In fact, with 5 daughters, I would consider you an iron man and a man of serene inner peace.  You would have to be. 

 

[RgrLee]

I WAS a man with inner peace but that was back when we had 3 daughters.

Regarding the school, nothing would make my softball player happier than to be given a serious look at by Coach Connie at UT Softball. She has some crazy idea she would represent the Horns and somehow be admitted into the McCombs school......oh yeah, and then goto UT Law. There are other schools she would attend but funny enough, there are schools she'd never consider due to growing up in this house,

Man o man, what it is to be young and have dreams!

Regarding UH, they are making some changes and really striving to be more than a prep school. I'll continue rooting for them and pray they can solidify an argument to join our conf.

 

[Juan]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011



— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

But, aggy is gonna make $40MM for their TV rights this year with the SECSECSEC Network! Clay Travis said so!

 

[Agmaniacmike]

No matter which way you slice it, the SEC Network is wildly successful for a TV network in its infancy. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011



My understanding is that doesn't include 3rd tier TV rights either. 

I've seen 25-27 million from the Big 12 and 15 million for third tier TV rights. 

So Texas is pulling in 40-42 million.

 

[castlebravo1]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

 

[utisdabomb12]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

Fine with me, we are still making more money than all those teams when you factor in money made from the conference and 3rd tier TV rights. 

 

[castlebravo1]

Fine with me, we are still making more money than all those teams when you factor in money made from the conference and 3rd tier TV rights. 

And yet, we're still losing money.

 

[streettopeschel]

And yet, we're still losing money.

allegedly.