View from the Cheap Seats WVU

[echeese]

 

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View from the Cheap Seats-WVU
 
Or
 
Can we swap staffs?

 
What a frustrating day.  We see a well coached team come into Austin and we see our staff out coached yet again.  It is hard to believe some of our coach potato fans actually didn’t realize that WVU is a very good football team, well coached despite a lack of overall talent.  Now the Cheap Seats isn’t touting them for the playoffs, simply one of those teams that if you don’t show up with your "A" game, you get beat.  And they deserve to be ranked.   We used to know what that felt like. There might be 5 WVU players who would start for TEXAS. 
 
Que the excuse making but 2 observations, the first of which is that The Cheap Seats would swap staffs in a heartbeat with WVU and we’d likely win the conference next year.  While our talent is young (cue excuse #1), TEXAS clearly enjoys superior talent to WVU yet their coaches have them playing better, especially Tony Gibson schooling Sterling Gilbert’s high school offense.  Second, with a golden opportunity to show he could “coach up†a game and beat a team despite going down by double digits, CFS/Gilbert choked . . .stop me if you have heard this before.  It is staggering to think there is any reason for CFS to get 2017.  Yet we’ll wager he has 2017.   Keep in mind, the Cheap Seats was if not driving the CFS fanboy bus when he arrived of his fan club, certainly had a seat in the front row.  In 3 years, CFS has beaten one team with better talent and that was OU last year.  Of course he’s let OU off the hook in both the other years . . . . .games he coulda/shoulda/woulda won if he had his team ready.  Make no mistake, WVU does not have TEXAS talent but they pretty much out coached TEXAS all day.
 
 
 

 Offense’s worst game of the year​

Some of our fans seriously over rated our offense, which has had some good games against some REALLY bad defenses.  It’s one thing to look awesome vs the Cal/TT/Baylor and even OUs of the world (though there was a glaring problem with the O in the OU game some fans are still in denial over).  .quite another to have good days vs well coached teams.  Tony Gibson, WVU’s DC was playing chess, Sterlin Gilbert was playing checkers.   Stop us if you have heard this before:  TEXAS gains 4 turnovers and manages to only score 7 points.  Guess we should be happy that is an improvement over the OU game, 4 turnovers 3 points.  You simply have to make teams pay when you take the ball away. 
 
Compounding the problem was TEXAS going 5 of 17 on 3rd down.  This TEXAS team needs to be beating teams keeping drives alive.  The analogy was made late in the 1st half that this was going to be a heavy weight fight.  We have the best “body puncher†in all of college football in D’Onte Foreman yet in the critical 3rd quarter having cut a 2 score lead down to one, we went away from our bread and butter and passed 15 times to only 10 runs.   Now one of those was a beautiful shovel pass to DF who went for 19 yards getting TEXAS’ sole scoring drive of the 2nd half off to a very good start.  But even DF would look very human as other than that, he had his worst half of football this year since UTEP . . .a game he sat out.  He would finish with a 4.8 average but only averaged about 3 yards a carry in the 2nd half. 
 
Biggest positives on the offensive side of the ball where Shane’s very nifty running.  He really does keep a defense honest and Dorian Leonard’s career day, 7 grabs 125 yards.  Shane would have a good day statistically, 31 of 48 for 318 yards a TD and a pick which Hurt should have caught.  TEXAS would go for it on 4th down 3 times, making 2.  Should have been 3 for 3 but Johnson cut his route early before the sticks.  Cheap Seats loved the calls, playing to win. 
 

 Tale of the Tape​

TEXAS game into this game averaging 37 points per game.  Often stats do not tell the whole story.  TEXAS has played 5 games vs teams with Top 100 defenses, their scoring average falls to 29 points per game vs those teams.  Remove TEXAS’ best offensive game of the year, 50 points, vs #67 Notre Dame and the average drops down to 25 points per game.  ISU #100, OSU tied with ND at #67, KSU #48 and WVU #20.  The problems the Cheap Seats have discussed most of the year came home to roost this week
 
Against the two best defenses this team has faced (KSU and WVU), the TEXAS offense has turned in it’s worst performances.  Add to that the inability to make OU pay and capitalize on 3 1st half turnovers, this season would have an entirely different feel. 
 
Offensive Co-players of the game, for the first time in the 9 games he’s played, D’Onte Foreman is not the choice.  Going with Shane and Dorian this week. 
 
 

Defense’s best game of the year​

 
Very early in the 1st quarter, DF took a hand off and fumbled deep in TEXAS territory.  Our defense made a huge statement . . .they took the ball away.  They would make plays all day, they would record 4 turnovers total along with forcing WVU to punt 5 times on their 13 drives.
 
Our question, why has it taken a season and a half for defensive guru Charlie Flacking Strong to have the defense playing this well?  Defense came up with 4 turnovers and gave the offense every chance to win this game.  Cheap Seats would have lost money in Vegas had we been told we’d hold WVU to 24.
 
The defense is clearly stepping up it’s game as the season goes on though if we are going to keep CFS for 2017, we’d welcome doubling Tony Gibson’s salary ($750,000 to $1.5 million).  The man clearly understands the chess match of spread football.
 
Co-Players of the game, PJ Locke and Malcom Roach.  Honorable Mention is Dylan Haines with 2 INTs.  Roach appears to be having the best year of the freshmen DLs
 

Making the case for the 1963 Title game RE-MATCH​

 

Cheap Seats does not have a clue what is happening to CFS.  If we have any projection, CFS is back as long as we don’t lose to KU.  We cannot fathom losing to KU so TEXAS is going bowling.  For largely personal reasons (Cheap Seats has VIP access to the Armed Forces Bowl), our dream scenario is a matchup in Ft Worth with our Cotton Bowl opponent from 1963, the Roger Staubach lead Navy Midshipmen.  This would also just about assure a sell out in TCU’s small but well done stadium and make for a very interesting match up vs their option attack.  Not to mention we need the extra practice time. 
 

 Ranking the BigXII​

#1  Dirt Burglers. . .  .gotta say, first time we enjoyed an OU win, beat the dog out of the fraud that is Rape U.  They are headed to the Sugar Bowl to play an SEC opponent as long as they beat OSU in the Bedlam game.
 
#2  West Virginia. .  . .yes, they lost to OSU . .who is hanging on for dear life vs a bad TT team at home no less.  Needs an OSU loss to control their destiny to win conference.  Cotton or Russell Athletic for the Mountaineers
 
#3  OSU. . . .Hung on to beat TT, WVU needs them to beat OU to win the conference. OSU also controls their own destiny.  Cotton or Alamo Bowl
 
#4  TCU  Needs to win one of their next 3 to go bowling vs OSU, TEXAS then finish at home to KSU.  They have been so up and down this year, we could see 3-0 or 0-3 or any combination in the middle.  For now projecting them to Texas or Liberty bowl
 
#5  KSU  Needs to win one of their last 3 but they have KU so they are in as well as Baylor and TCU.  Cactus Texas or Liberty for KSU though Armed Forces bowl an option as well. 
 
#6 TEXAS  With KU on the schedule, at worst we finish 6-6
 
#4 - #6 largely any mix
 
#7  Baylor.  .. .always good to see Rape U abused.  They are bowl eligible and could be an Alamo, Texas, Liberty or Cactus pick.
 
#8  Texas Tech. . .  .best of the mutts.  Needs to beat ISU and Baylor to go bowling.  We’re pulling for them.
 
#9  ISU  Beat KU in the battle of the mutts
 
#10  Jayhawks ready for basketball season
 Our vote if we had a CFB playoff ballot
Stay tuned, will update after all games are played.

 

[joeywa]

Nicely done once again Chuck. I saw the same thing you did. Is it baseball season yet?

 

[North Texas Golfer]

"Cheap Seats would have lost money in Vegas had we been told we’d hold WVU to 24."

Cheap Seats obviously didn't read post #9 in the Common Guy Prediction Thread where I predicted that both teams would score less than 30 and had WVA winning 24-17. Oh well, you guys pay about as much attention to what I say as my wife does 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Tale of the Tape​

TEXAS game into this game averaging 37 points per game.  Often stats do not tell the whole story.  TEXAS has played 5 games vs teams with Top 100 defenses, their scoring average falls to 29 points per game vs those teams.  Remove TEXAS’ best offensive game of the year, 50 points, vs #67 Notre Dame and the average drops down to 25 points per game.  ISU #100, OSU tied with ND at #67, KSU #48 and WVU #20.  The problems the Cheap Seats have discussed most of the year came home to roost this week.
 
 
Not only do stats not tell the whole story but neither does W-L. This year's team is better than last year's and has played an easier schedule. And, at best, they are going to equal or maybe only slightly better the record that last year's team should have ended up with. That is NOT improvement. 
 
 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

"Cheap Seats would have lost money in Vegas had we been told we’d hold WVU to 24."

Cheap Seats obviously didn't read post #9 in the Common Guy Prediction Thread where I predicted that both teams would score less than 30 and had WVA winning 24-17. Oh well, you guys pay about as much attention to what I say as my wife does 

 

[echeese]

"Cheap Seats would have lost money in Vegas had we been told we’d hold WVU to 24."

Cheap Seats obviously didn't read post #9 in the Common Guy Prediction Thread where I predicted that both teams would score less than 30 and had WVA winning 24-17. Oh well, you guys pay about as much attention to what I say as my wife does 

We will consult you in the future before placing any wagers.

If we can find you after your blow and hookers weekend in Vegas with all your winnings.

 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

We will consult you in the future before placing any wagers.

If we can find you after your blow and hookers weekend in Vegas with all your winnings.

 

Well, if I'm being truthful, this was probably the first time that I got it right or even half-way right. So you might still want to think long and hard before consulting me 

 

[Embrey]

Very nice again echeese. I thought the defense played extremely well and, by extension, I commend not only the players but the entire defensive staff and the head coach.

The offense, that is a different story. The effort and execution by the offensive players was not the problem. Although it is near impossible to compute with any accuracy how much the luke warm offensive performance should have scored, I feel very comfortable saying that the offense, particularly the offensive coordinator, should receive a passing grade at best. Also by extension I place partial responsibility for this output on the head coach.

Charlie Strong has been under immense pressure for most of his tenure and specifically this season. To make things clear, I think Texas should expect to always win a solid majority of its games every year. Earlier this year it became overwhelmingly apparent that the defense was broken. Coach Strong stepped in and has fixed the defense. He had to demote a long time loyalist on his defensive staff to right the ship. On offense, which is not Coach Strong's professional forte, he acquiesced to the powers that be, got rid of a loyal assistant and lured a young, promising offensive coordinator to right the ship. We have seen the potential as Texas has showed more potency on offense in part because of Gilbert's scheme and in part because of the stellar recruiting Charlie and company have achieved. But the difference between what we saw on offense and defense yesterday was a stark contrast.

Defensively, Charlie has assumed control, made slight but significant personnel changes that all appear to favor fundamentals (read this as the ability and willingness to tackle) and has imprinted upon that unit his personality. I like the defensive personality. It is built upon everyone doing their job (unity) and effort. These are core principles of the head coach and I like them.

Here is the problem, Sterlin Gilbert thinks he runs this offense. Contrary to how silly that sounds it is incumbent upon Coach Strong to impart to the young OC the principles which have to govern offensive philosophy. Again, Charlie Strong is making the same mistake he has made several times with the defensive staff while head coach. He places immense trust and loyalty in his assistants without laying down the ultimate framework in which they are going to do their job. West Virginia was beatable yesterday. They could not stop Foreman. When it came down to crunch time we find Gilbert not going with the strength of his offense (Foreman), rather, Gilbert thinks his superior scheme will win the day. Note to Gilbert: The conference knows the only patterns young Shane can execute with confidence are the hitch, the shallow hook and the over the top bomb. They have adapted not only to him but to your tendencies as well. You will beat the teams you outclass and lose to the teams that are of the same caliber when you play that game.

I make this point to give advice to Charlie. This is your team. Although you are not professionally an offensive guru it is incumbent upon you to imprint your offense with your philosophy. For whatever reason, Gilbert calls the offense like he is operating outside of your protocol. Coach Strong, you need to get this fixed.

Here is what you tell Sterlin Gilbert, TODAY: Sterlin, this is your offense, I have total trust in you and your abilities. It is not my style or professional belief that micro-management is an effective way to lead. That being said, you are free to call whatever, whenever you want, even in crunch, time AS LONG AS IT IS A HANDOFF TO FOREMAN. I will defer to you when there is no other option but to pass. But when the game is on the line, just give Foreman the damn ball until they stop him.

Once Charlie rights the offense, this team will be ready to reach its potential.

 

[dillohorn]

Seems that FG kickers are an after thought. Look at the problem from Strong's day one. Disaster has cost the Horns a ton. I want to crawl under the bed every time this team lines up for a FG or PAT. Was automatic for decades. Can't remember when it wasn't.

 

[Bear19]

"Once Charlie rights the offense, this team will be ready to reach its potential."

Ain't happening. Charlie doesn't have the knowledge or the temperament to right the offense. He is a good recruiter and a good defensive cordinator, if he's willing to concentrate on that.

The Peter principle is in play here and has been for the last three years.

 

[joeywa]

"Cheap Seats would have lost money in Vegas had we been told we’d hold WVU to 24."

Cheap Seats obviously didn't read post #9 in the Common Guy Prediction Thread where I predicted that both teams would score less than 30 and had WVA winning 24-17. Oh well, you guys pay about as much attention to what I say as my wife does 

Is it really that hard to put your dishes in the dishwasher? 

 

[popdaddy]

Damn, I'm a 1971 grad. I've lived all over the country,have followed the Horns all  my life and don't know which post above to click I agree.

I think it's best to give Coach Strong another recruiting class and year of hope.

Mack Brown left Coach Strong with nothing but scrubs.

Recovery from a coaching disaster takes time. Let's not reset the clock. 

 

[echeese]

Damn, I'm a 1971 grad. I've lived all over the country,have followed the Horns all  my life and don't know which post above to click I agree.

I think it's best to give Coach Strong another recruiting class and year of hope.

Mack Brown left Coach Strong with nothing but scrubs.

Recovery from a coaching disaster takes time. Let's not reset the clock. 

Can't tell you how much I disagree. . .CFS has plenty of talent this year. . . .Mack left 4 excellent recruiting classes.  CFS does not get a pass because he ran them off.

Oh yeah, his best player this year is DF, a Mack recruit.

Coaching disaster?   Mack left us within 30 minutes of winning the conference.   

TEXAS was 30-21 Mack's last 4 years (includes 2010).    CFS is running the risk of being the ONLY coach in TEXAS history to have 3 straight losing seasons.

CFS has shown nothing to indicate he can take this team to a conference championship much less the playoffs.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Can't tell you how much I disagree. . .CFS has plenty of talent this year. . . .Mack left 4 excellent recruiting classes.  CFS does not get a pass because he ran them off.

Oh yeah, his best player this year is DF, a Mack recruit.

Coaching disaster?   Mack left us within 30 minutes of winning the conference.   

TEXAS was 30-21 Mack's last 4 years (includes 2010).    CFS is running the risk of being the ONLY coach in TEXAS history to have 3 straight losing seasons. 

CFS has shown nothing to indicate he can take this team to a conference championship much less the playoffs.

Everything in this post is right on target including the part about CFS not getting a pass because he ran some players off. Joel Klatt said it very well when he said Charlie changed the culture but he did not/has not established a new culture. Especially a new culture of leadership.

Charlie knew, or should have known, what he was getting into and he knew, or should have known, what he was doing when he ran some players off. 

 

[DMAC]

Once Charlie rights the offense, this team will be ready to reach its potential.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Can't tell you how much I disagree. . .CFS has plenty of talent this year. . . .Mack left 4 excellent recruiting classes.  CFS does not get a pass because he ran them off.

Oh yeah, his best player this year is DF, a Mack recruit.

Coaching disaster?   Mack left us within 30 minutes of winning the conference.   

TEXAS was 30-21 Mack's last 4 years (includes 2010).    CFS is running the risk of being the ONLY coach in TEXAS history to have 3 straight losing seasons.

CFS has shown nothing to indicate he can take this team to a conference championship much less the playoffs.

Cheese, if it weren't for you, I don't think I'd ever hear anyone brag about the talent Mack left behind. It's just interesting to see someone say that I guess. Kinda like the super moon we're having , . or something.

Who is DF?

Mack left behind a collection of character issues. Two of them landed on my son's team at Navarro. And they picked up where they left off at Texas. One of them became the team's drug supplier and crashed and burned by the end of the season (kicked out of school). Seriously, who gets kicked out of Navarro?

I don't think Charlie really needs a pass. He starts mostly frosh and sophomores and most of the plays are made by those same young'ens. So I don't get the talk of passes, needing them, or whatever. We're only reading this stuff because we lost. Had we won, we'd be hearing something very different right now.

We lost to a very good team at home. And that team will beat OU this coming weekend, who is ranked in the top 10.

You say Charlie is "running the risk" of being the first coach here to have three losing seasons. He's also on high alert for having a winning season and getting to a bowl, which did not happen last year. So the "risk" thing really doesn't phase me when you simply failed to show the other risks involved.

When Mack left, our players were soft. They were not developing physically. These aren't secrets. They were the talk of the conference back then. It was a perception that didn't end until Charlie came to Austin. Even with losing seasons, nobody is calling us soft.

IMO, Dylan Haines is the best Mack player we have. And he was a walk on. It seems everyone can't wait to see him replaced, even though he keeps making plays here and there.

 

[okiehorn]

Cheese, if it weren't for you, I don't think I'd ever hear anyone brag about the talent Mack left behind. It's just interesting to see someone say that I guess. Kinda like the super moon we're having , . or something.

Who is DF?

Mack left behind a collection of character issues. Two of them landed on my son's team at Navarro. And they picked up where they left off at Texas. One of them became the team's drug supplier and crashed and burned by the end of the season (kicked out of school). Seriously, who gets kicked out of Navarro?

I don't think Charlie really needs a pass. He starts mostly frosh and sophomores and most of the plays are made by those same young'ens. So I don't get the talk of passes, needing them, or whatever. We're only reading this stuff because we lost. Had we won, we'd be hearing something very different right now.

We lost to a very good team at home. And that team will beat OU this coming weekend, who is ranked in the top 10.

You say Charlie is "running the risk" of being the first coach here to have three losing seasons. He's also on high alert for having a winning season and getting to a bowl, which did not happen last year. So the "risk" thing really doesn't phase me when you simply failed to show the other risks involved.

When Mack left, our players were soft. They were not developing physically. These aren't secrets. They were the talk of the conference back then. It was a perception that didn't end until Charlie came to Austin. Even with losing seasons, nobody is calling us soft.

IMO, Dylan Haines is the best Mack player we have. And he was a walk on. It seems everyone can't wait to see him replaced, even though he keeps making plays here and there.

Best part of this is reading you believe WVU beats OU this weekend!!!! Can only hope! Don't want those dirt bags weasling there way back to the top with some help

 

[DMAC]

When Mack left, our players were soft. They were not developing physically. These aren't secrets. 

I dont disagree with you often SHA but I do here.  Jordan Hicks, Malcom Brown (DL), Hassan Ridegway, and Quandry Diggs are all in the NFL.  They are not soft by any stretch.  

As a matter of fact, the BEST defense Mr Strong has enjoyed was with those so called soft players Mack left behind.

We bitch about Mack brown who won a NC and played for another vs Alabama in 2009.  Mack had a winning record in each of his last three years which Charlie hasnt even been able to get one in 3 years.  

Somehow people have this backwards.  They make excuses for our shitty .500 head coach at every turn but blast one of the all time greats.   Shameful.  

Some stats under Mack Brown:

Total Defense:
2012 - #67
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O
 
2011 - #11
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O
 
2010 - #6
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O
 
I couldnt find 2013 stats.  
 
Under Strong his first year the defense was improved but his last 2 years have been absolutely pathetic...both of which our defense is ranked #108+.  Charlie Strong's defense has been total shit.
 
 
Records:
 
Mack Brown
2011: 8-5
2012: 9-4
2013: 8-5
Overall: 25-14 (2-1 in Bowl games)
 
 
Not so Strong
2014: 6-7
2015: 5-7
2016: 5-5
Overall: 16-19 (0-1 in Bowl games)
 
 
No more excuses.

 

[oldhorn2]

Sterlin Gilbert is still our OC?....After these last 2 games I thought we had rehired Fred Akers to run the offense.Who knew?

I am tired of talking about Mack....But I still wonder...had he stayed on how would he have done these last 3 years continuing the way he was going? I suspect we would be waaaayy worse off than we are right now.

Even so, I dream of being able to hire John Harbraugh