Texas to the Big 10????

[Irish in SEC country]

Yanno, even with all the trouble Dodds has caused, it is pretty cool to be one of the only schools in the position of doing whatever the hell it wants.

Very true. We have learned that as valuable as OU football is, OU could not get into the Pac without UT. Texas tomorrow could join the ACC, Big Ten, Pac or SEC.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Well Said VP.
Wherever Texas would go outside of the Big 12, they would give up some Alpha Dog status. However, instead of being THE player in the conference, they would be one of 3-4 players. In the BIG, Texas would have to share with OSU and MICH, but would be elevated above PSU, Neb, and everyone else.

In the ACC they would have to play nice with UNC and UVA and Duke. FSU and Clemson are not the alpha dogs in that conference.

I don't know about your assessment of Penn State. Barry Alvarez let slip that a key reason for the expansion to 14 was that a Big Ten member might have been considering leaving. PSU is the only possibility. The Big Ten added a pair of schools in states that border PA, and giving PSU schools that might become meaningful rivals for PSU was a main reason. If that is so, then PSU now has major capital in the Big Ten and that means PSU has a big hammer. And you can bet that it will use it. PSU fans have always resented being seen as the maybe halfway fit, the outsider in the Big Ten. Now that it is truly needed to stay in the Big Ten, PSU will strut behind the scenes and start making demands and getting them. If they are denied, they will flirt with the ACC and then get them.

Beyond that, I don't think you understand Big Ten power fully. Both Illinois and Wisconsin have major powers in the conference, powers that go far beyond football or sports generally.

You are correct about the trio with the most power in the ACC. If it were not that case, if FSU were the true alpha dog, then ND probably would not have joined. That the alpha dog trio is one super elite private school and 2 smaller Public Ivys is exactly what ND prefers. It means, among other things, that any new kid on the block with major football power immediately goes to the head of the class in terms of football.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

The problem is the ACC's weak football brand and that outside of Virginia and North Carolina, it has no #1 team in its state. Pitt is no PSU, Clemson is a bit behind South Carolina, Georgia Tech hasn't been close to Georgia since the Bobby Dodd days, Florida State and Miami invariably trail Florida, and Louisville may be ahead of Kentucky in football, but so what?
I'm a Maryland alumnus who's glad to be leaving the ACC for a conference with a real, old-money football culture; I can't imagine anyone in Austin would be thrilled about playing Wake, Duke and BC in football every few years.

Also, in terms of distance, it's not as if the ACC is next door to UT. The closest members would be Louisville and Florida State, probably not that much closer to Austin than WVU is to Ames. Distance would be a problem for Texas in switching to any major conference -- the least difficulty would be the SEC, but A&M probably would have veto power and from an academic perspective, in the SEC, UT would feel like its IQ was shaved ten points.

I doubt the entry that opened this thread (UT and Georgia Tech to the Big Ten) has any possibility of happening...but let's say it did. Tech is AAU, just like Texas. Atlanta is a wonderful city to visit, easily accessible by air as the "crossroads of the Southeast." And adding both the Longhorns and Yellow Jackets gives the Big Ten a legit one-two punch in baseball, alleviating some concerns and perhaps persuading some current Big Ten members to bolster their programs.

Unless Texas maintains the status quo and remains in a withering Big 12, it won't be calling the shots in its new home. Perhaps it could to some extent in the Pac with Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Okie State, but not in the Big Ten (it's an all-for-one, one-for-all philosophy traditionally alien to Austin), and certainly not in the ACC (as Notre Dame will discover when it locks heads with the Research Triangle schools, particularly UNC -- it thinks it's an alpha dog like Texas without alpha dog football). There will have to a change in mindset in burnt orange country, no matter where the Longhorns move.

You forgot to mention that your school is a central part of any weak ACC brand in football. Maryland has no football fans. It has no football stability. It hasn't truly been on the national power scene since the 1950s. Your replacement, Louisville, has much nicer football facilities, a larger stadium, averages more fans per game than Maryland does, and has a much stronger on the field program now. Louisville football playing FSU and Clemson annually, playing Miami, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech on a rotating basis, and playing ND once every 3 years, is only going to find it much easier to recruit and sell tickets than it ever has.

Can playing PSU, OSU, and Meatchicken make Maryland football seem relevant? For the short term, yes. For the long haul? Not unless Maryland becomes very good, year after year. Maryland football winning 4-8 gams per year will flounder with fans, because of the Redskins and Ravens absolutely control MD.

Neither you nor Rutgers help the Big Ten's football brand. You may well hurt it. Certainly SEC fans look at the pair of you the way they would look at Tulane and SMU as potential new SEC members. Louisville helps the ACC's at least a little.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

So while we agree that the Big 12 is more interesting than the BIG, both are less interesting then the pathetic ACC

ACC football had a larger number of TV viewers nationally than did Big 12, with both FSU and Miami down at the same time for nearly a decade. What do you think the numbers will be like with both FSU and Miami ranked and at least 1 of them Top Ten and with ND playing 5 ACC games per year?

 

[Nakona Horn]

ACC football had a larger number of TV viewers nationally than did Big 12, with both FSU and Miami down at the same time for nearly a decade. What do you think the numbers will be like with both FSU and Miami ranked and at least 1 of them Top Ten and with ND playing 5 ACC games per year?

Yep.

As I have said, the ACC's ceiling is a LOT higher than any other conference except maybe the SEC once you add ND to the growing demographics and footprint of the ACC. ACC is already elite in hoops and bases. 55% of the US population will live within the ACC footprint by 2035 (according to a study done by the ACC office). GA, SC, NC, FL, and VA produce a LOT of athletes. So does the NJ area.

 

[TheContractor]

Yep.
As I have said, the ACC's ceiling is a LOT higher than any other conference except maybe the SEC once you add ND to the growing demographics and footprint of the ACC. ACC is already elite in hoops and bases. 55% of the US population will live within the ACC footprint by 2035 (according to a study done by the ACC office). GA, SC, NC, FL, and VA produce a LOT of athletes. So does the NJ area.

Assuming those #s are correct, now add the population of Texas and numb of people with at least 1/2 their teeth in Oklahoma and the combo would be equal to Sec and tops in nation, meaning $$$.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Irish in SEC Country, but doesn't ND have more alumni in the ACC footprint than the B1G? That also had to factor into the decision of choosing the ACC. It's a helluva deal for ND!

 

[TheContractor]

Win -Win for ND in that deal. No reason not to take it. ND has history with Pitt and GT.

I haven't seen numbers but IMO otner than Chicago, there are more ND alumni in ACC footprint. I consider NYC in ACC but probably both when Rutgers goes big10.

Irish in sec can verify that better.

 

[joebobb]

Louisville is vastly overrated. They beat a FLorida team in the Sugar Bowl that was not ready to play last year. They are not going to make a BCS bowl this year. In addition, what did Louisville do in the 5 years before they beat Florida.

They have a decent fan base but it is fair weather. I would describe them as a step above Cincinnati, not as good as West Virginia as far as football fans and staying power. WVU was the better football choice for the Big 12. Louisville fits better in the ACC because of basketball. They will be a middle of the road football team at best. Really not much different than MD. If the ACC people hold Louisville out to be a football power, then it just shows how pathetic the ACC is in football.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Yep.
As I have said, the ACC's ceiling is a LOT higher than any other conference except maybe the SEC once you add ND to the growing demographics and footprint of the ACC. ACC is already elite in hoops and bases. 55% of the US population will live within the ACC footprint by 2035 (according to a study done by the ACC office). GA, SC, NC, FL, and VA produce a LOT of athletes. So does the NJ area.

To give a complete picture, ACC football has liabilities that the Big Ten and SEC would never have the stones to take on - a bunch of small schools, most of them private. I always assumed that Clemson was a huge Ag school, like the Big Ten schools with at least 40,000 students. I was shocked to learn that it has barely 20,000. Miami is a private school of maybe 15,000.

So the ACC straight up as now existing cannot realistically have more football fans than the SEC or Big Ten. And that would be true is over the next decade FSU and Miami each win 2 national titles with Clemson and Virginia Tech each winning 1.

But add ND to what the ACC has to build on, and you have something special.

Add Texas to that, and, well, the sky would be the limit.

I think that if Texas were to join the ACC as we have, playing 5 ACCC football games per year, we all would gain.

As a true son of the Irish, I despise the Big Ten. It has to do with history. I also want ND to be part of and thus promoting a conference that values smaller schools, private schools and church affiliated schools. Even in Baptist country, the SEC has become the new Big Ten and would refuse to add Baylor or TCU. So I would like to see the SEC taken down a peg or two just as I would like to see the Big Ten exposed. Texas in the ACC with us will do the trick.

 

[HornSolo]

I could warm to the ACC if we had some partners like Baylor and OU to go with us.......Would they even take OU, Kansas Yes ,OU maybe not.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Irish in SEC Country, but doesn't ND have more alumni in the ACC footprint than the B1G? That also had to factor into the decision of choosing the ACC. It's a helluva deal for ND!

With Pitt and Syracuse making PA and NY ACC states, ND has at least as many alums within the ACC footprint as in Big Ten country. More important than alums to our having the national fan base is what somebody - maybe Grantland Rice? - called the Subway Alums. They are extremely passionate fans, as much so as the alums. Our most important Subway Alum TV market is NYC. Chicago is 2nd. Philadelphia and Boston are next. Over the past quarter of a century, we have seen our number of both alums and subway alums grow at a large rate in the southeast, especially in FL and GA.

I had a guy tell me about 2 years ago that because of the Research Triangle and Charlotte becoming the east coast's number 2 banking center behind NYC, ND has more than twice as many alums living in NC than it did 20 years ago.

So, yes, ND looking to the southeast coast as well as the northeast makes perfect sense.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

I could warm to the ACC if we had some partners like Baylor and OU to go with us.......Would they even take OU, Kansas Yes ,OU maybe not.

That is an interesting question. We know that the ACC will expand to 16 the second that we agree to become a full member in football. I think it is a no brainer than the ACC would add Texas as it has us now, a half member in football. But I have no idea if the ACC would expand to 18 or even 20.

In terms of schools - no doubt that the ACC would add Baylor. Isn't it the oldest university in Texas? Wake Forest is a Baptist school. Baylor could be its partner. TCU has risen a good deal in academic rankings over the past decade or so. Its name and church ties would not make the ACC turn away. The ACC with a school in DFW? That would make many ACC people smile, as long as Texas is involved.

Would the ACC want to be in OK and KS? Probably not, but OU has great football and KU has great basketball.

 

[TheContractor]

I could warm to the ACC if we had some partners like Baylor and OU to go with us.......Would they even take OU, Kansas Yes ,OU maybe not.

ACC would definitely take Bu, TT, Ou, OK st and Texas if it were a package deal. It would be a life changer, screw the numbers, you can figure that out later.

Kansas also, but KU has eyes for the Big10. and i think Big10 would take them.

 

[Hoekem]

Poor little Techsters...Mountain West?

There is only one School I am concerned w/ and that is The University of Texas!!!

 

[Lord Vader]

Send Kansas off to the Rust Belt Conference.

BU, OU, OSU, TT, UT, WVU could get a deal with the ACC.

TCU can go to back to MWC and take KSU and ISU with them.

 

[TheContractor]

Send Kansas off to the Rust Belt Conference.
BU, OU, OSU, TT, UT, WVU could get a deal with the ACC.

TCU can go to back to MWC and take KSU and ISU with them.

works for me. Kst, Isu and Tcu would probably get an invite to Pac, so they can expand their footprint and get into Texas. If UH plays its cards correctly, they can find a seat at the table but it wont be with Texas.

 

[joebobb]

How boring would it be if Texas went to the Atlantic Choke Conference. Imagine - Saturdays in Austin against the likes of Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia and NC State. Add to that the mighty Pitt Panthers and their legions of fans. Trips to Boston College and their pathetic team. Oh, we can also get excited about Louisville who has never really won anything too since they are going to be an ACC power from day 1. We can also get excited about the mighty tar heels in football.

Va Tech is only Va Tech because they play in the ACC against inferior competition.

Miami is not going to be the U again. Florida rules the state of Florida and FSU is 2nd in the state.

FSU is a legitimate power, and it would be interesting to see UT play FSU.

Clemson has not done anything since 1980. They are equivalent to Mich State in the Big 10 or a school like Mississippi in the SEC. Not an exciting matchup.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

How boring would it be if Texas went to the Atlantic Choke Conference. Imagine - Saturdays in Austin against the likes of Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia and NC State. Add to that the mighty Pitt Panthers and their legions of fans. Trips to Boston College and their pathetic team. Oh, we can also get excited about Louisville who has never really won anything too since they are going to be an ACC power from day 1. We can also get excited about the mighty tar heels in football.
Va Tech is only Va Tech because they play in the ACC against inferior competition.

Miami is not going to be the U again. Florida rules the state of Florida and FSU is 2nd in the state.

FSU is a legitimate power, and it would be interesting to see UT play FSU.

Clemson has not done anything since 1980. They are equivalent to Mich State in the Big 10 or a school like Mississippi in the SEC. Not an exciting matchup.

Wow - So even though it is nearly unanimous that ACC football is now the 3rd best, ahead of the Big 12 by a hair, which is better than the Big Ten, you want Texas to play against better football competition by joining the Big Ten. If I were a cynic, I would say that sounds like Aggie logic.

So Clemson has only 1 national title since 1980 - how ruinous that is. After all, the Big Ten has won a grand total of 2 national titles in the same period. Does that make Clemson all by itself half as good as the Big Ten?

Seriously, there is much more likelihood of Miami winning a couple of national titles over the next decade than is for the entire Big Ten to win 2. South FL produces more talent than the states NE, MN, IA, WI, and IN combined. The cloud of probation is going past fast, and finally Miami has a top notch coach, the veritable opposite of Randy Shannon. ND-Miami games are about to become major big time once again.

So VT is only VT because it is in the ACC? Isn't that like saying Baylor is only Baylor because it is in the Big 12, or Wisconsin is only Wisconsin because it is in the Big Ten? The disparagement only matters if the speaker is an SEC fan.

ACC football is going to get better, and while it certainly is not SEC-good now, it is better than Big Ten football. And yes, ND playing 5 ACC football games per year, playing all 14 members at least once every 3 years, is going to do 2 things to help ACC football rise: it will help ACC schools recruit against the SEC, and it will add to the ACC's number of TV viewers for football.

 

[joebobb]

Irish - you have a short memory. So the ACC is #3 this year, they were #6 behind the Big East at portions last year. What you are seeing is a aberration not the norm. Over the past 10 years how many years has the ACC been better than the BIG? Right, 2013 is the only year. You are basing your assumption on the fact one years results show a larger trend. Show me 3-4 years of sustained ACC dominance and you may have a point, but as of now, the ACC is still the Atlantic Choke until they prove otherwise.

So Florida produces a ton of talent, yes, but so does Ohio and Pennsylvania. New Jersey and Maryland are on the rise too.

The cloud of probation will always be with Miami, its part of who they are. They have been on probation for one thing or another 3-4 times since the late 80's. They got off lightly now because the NCAA screwed up the investigation.

Ultimately, your argument is equivalent to someone pushing the stock on Pets.com before the bubble burst. Look the ACC is on the rise, we look good in the press but has not really done anything on paper and ultimately has no results.

The argument for the Big 10 is that it may not be the #1 conference right now or even the #2 conference but over the last 10-15 years has consistently ranked in the top 3 conferences in America. The acc over that same horizon has ranked as he 5th best conference. Even in a year where they are up and the next big thing, they behind the SEC and PAC.

Again, when the ACC does something worth noting, let me know and I will take notice, Until then, your argument is weak.