Swoopes improving?

[DMAC]

Here is the quote in its entirety:

He wasn't asked about Swoopes play in that game, or Swoopes himself, he was asked about Swoope's progress.   I think any reasonable person would be find it difficult to read this as a criticism of Swoopes.

*Usually the person using the quote to bolster their own argument has the burden of providing the link to the quote - but I'll do you a solid.

Haha.  That is the great thing about a debate.  You have your notions of "Swoopes there it is!!!"  and I have mine of "Swoopes there it isn't"  

I guess I am just glass half empty kind of guy when it comes to seeing Swoopes as a championship QB.  Agenda nah, I just don't believe in him.

 

[DMAC]

I also don't buy that you have to stand up and give speeches to be a leader.  Strong talked this week that this team of Seniors are mostly quiet guys and 'lead by example' type players.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that type of leadership.  I guess it all depends on what this team/locker room needs.  As long as Swoopes teammates respect and have confidence in him - I don't see the problem.

I couldnt disagree more.  Such a simple case of looking through rose colored glasses for you.  From what I have seen from Strong all year is he wants MORE vocal leaders not less.  He said yesterday Digg and Hicks are the vocal leaders.  Where is the offensive vocal leaders.  hmmmm?

Probably isnt one.  I have always thought we lacked leadership.  Most of the seniors on this team are very quiet and subdued except for Diggs.  Charlie even said we need players to step up and be vocal.  So there goes your theory. Hicks the QB of the defense is vocal and no matter what you says the QB needs to be a vocal leader.  Give me one example of a championship QB that wasnt a vocal leader on his team.

 

[DMAC]

Swoopes development has saved the QB situation this year.  This cannot be denied and to do so only means you have an agenda. 

So his 3 game 30% completion percentage saved his team?  Just how did Swoopes save the QB situation?  Agenda?  Yea I have one.  Please bring in more QB's so we can find one that takes this team to the top 5.  

 

[Hiphopopotamos]

I couldnt disagree more.  Such a simple case of looking through rose colored glasses for you.  From what I have seen from Strong all year is he wants MORE vocal leaders not less.  He said yesterday Digg and Hicks are the vocal leaders.  Where is the offensive vocal leaders.  hmmmm?

Probably isnt one.  I have always thought we lacked leadership.  Most of the seniors on this team are very quiet and subdued except for Diggs.  Charlie even said we need players to step up and be vocal.  So there goes your theory. Hicks the QB of the defense is vocal and no matter what you says the QB needs to be a vocal leader.  Give me one example of a championship QB that wasnt a vocal leader on his team.

I think you probably need to reread my post again - there seems to be a disconnect to the point I was making.  I never said the team needed fewer vocal leaders - I said that that wasn't the only type of leader.  Strong reiterated that in the press-conference yesterday.

Secondly - it wasn't my theory - it was an understanding that leadership doesn't only and isn't exclusive to sideline rah-rah and rants.

As for guys who are not rah-rah/rant leaders and won championships, in recent memory, Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

 

[Hiphopopotamos]

So his 3 game 30% completion percentage saved his team?  Just how did Swoopes save the QB situation?  Agenda?  Yea I have one.  Please bring in more QB's so we can find one that takes this team to the top 5.  

Huh?

 

[DMAC]

I think you probably need to reread my post again - there seems to be a disconnect to the point I was making.  I never said the team needed fewer vocal leaders - I said that that wasn't the only type of leader.  Strong reiterated that in the press-conference yesterday.

Secondly - it wasn't my theory - it was an understanding that leadership doesn't only and isn't exclusive to sideline rah-rah and rants.

As for guys who are not rah-rah/rant leaders and won championships, in recent memory, Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.

We will just agree to disagree.  My take from Charlie Press Conferences for the last few weeks is he WANTS vocal leaders but it depends on the personality of the players.  Since most are quiet then it has become "lead by example" now.  Politically correct?  Harris and Big Macolm both very quiet but step up BIG.  

I get it.  I guess I miss the exuding confidence and VY's swag brought to his team.  Color me spoiled

Swoopes may develop this over time with confidence.  I doubt it though.  I would rather be wrong and have the horns in the top 10 with Swoopes at QB than be right and wait 2 more years for the next developing QB

 

[bcherry168]

Some of you guys are beating a dead horse.

 

[doc longhorn]

Its not ridiculous at all.  I am talking about leadership ability more than anything.  

Forgetting each their physical abilities or style of play, Barrett shows leadership is well documented and Swoopes does not, yet.  Barrett is a RS frosh and gives speeches to his team pregame.  Swoopes doesnt.  You can see Barrett directing players on offense like Hicks does on defense.  I dont see Swoopes doing this.  I really dont care at all who our QB is.  I do care that OUR team has a leader at QB.  When i brought up Colt and VY, and Brown all showed leadership at QB regardless of stats.

Watson and Strong have said repeatedly we need leadership at the QB spot as in their words because " the ball in their hands most of the game".

Strong just said in this weeks Press conference as why he believes the team has done so well in the last few games and he said (paraphrase)"the team and defense has gained confidence in the offense where that was a problem earlier in the year."

You could make an argument for not comparing QB's performance because of other players such as the same OL, backs, coaches, etc.  But confidence in yourself and leadership abilities has more to do with the person than other players.  

Swoopes hasnt shown any leadership and it is obvious he has confidence issues.  Hell even Strong and Watson talk about how they try to handle him his fragile confidence.

Maybe he works out, maybe he doesnt.  Maybe he is a leader at a 1A or 2A HS.  But I dont see it yet but I do see it out of a RS frosh in Barrett.  

Just how far can you expect this to go without having leadership at the QB spot?  Personality wise he is the polar opposite of Diggs.  

I dont like his chances.  

On another note i read this somewhere not sure where.  An offensive player was asked what he thought of Swoopes play after the OSU game and the quote was "Watson is a great coach, isnt he"  I guess you take that the way you want but I dont take that as "Swoopes is awesome!"  more like Swoopes is coached up and still average. 

Got it.  You are hyped on the leadership thing.  In your opinion, this is the most important asset.  

You had to love Case McCoy then.

With all due respect, you say Swoopes doesn't have it, when you really don't know what you are talking about.  You don't know what Tyrone has because you aren't in the huddles, the locker room or on the practice field.  You are really just making a wild ass guess based on third or fourth hand info.

But, that's okay - we all do that on message boards.  Just don't get mad when someone says you are wrong.

Well, you go ahead and condemn Tyrone, if that floats your boat.  I'll cut the kid more slack than you are willing to.  I think the kid, under the circumstances, has done a fantastic job.

However, I do wish you and the rest of the posters that insist on ponying up "high school" data as the end all, be all criteria for the value of a college player.  I'll bet ya'll loved Garrett Gilbert as well.

 

[DMAC]

Got it.  You are hyped on the leadership thing.  In your opinion, this is the most important asset.  

You had to love Case McCoy then.

Your comments make no sense at all.  So Case was a leader?  Why did I have to love Case? LOL.

Yea I believe the QB leads the offense and its important for him to be a leader.  For you to tout Swoopes as a savior is just homer trash.  You said you cant compare players.  Really?  I guess no one compares players.  Coaches dont compare players when recruiting and deciding on which player to offer.  Judges dont compare players for awards.  Playoff Commitee doesnt compare teams for the final four.  Gotcha.  

If I had compared Ricky to Earl during his Heisman run all you homers would have been on here touting how great Ricky was.  But as soon as someone compares a mediocre overlyhyped player like Swoopes to another QB we snubbed for him that is in the NC hunt and in talks about the Heisman all of sudden its not relevant.

You want to talk about wins lets talk about it.  Swoopes has beaten Kansas, Iowa State, OSU, Tech, and WV.  Other than WV the other teams are 6-25 in conference play.  We have scored 20 points in the 3rd quarter this year.  This is your savior?  

Low standards

The defense has held this team up this year not Swoopes.  I can make a case Swoopes played better in his first game vs UCLA than he has 3 out of the last 4 games.  Hence improving topic.  I mean seriously 30% completion percentage over a 3 game stretch?  If it wasnt Harris and Shipley adjustments on routes it would probably be lower than that.

For you to say im wrong on Swoopes leadership abilities assumes you know he is a leader.  In which case you dont know what you are talking about unless you are in the huddles, locker room etc.  

Its obvious just by listening to him during press conference and watching him choke in the 2nd half of almost every game hes has played this year.  The only game where I can say I saw him lead this team to victory was Iowa State.

You mention "ponying up" High School data?  I guess you think Ohio State is a high school 

 

[doc longhorn]

Your comments make no sense at all.  So Case was a leader?  Why did I have to love Case? LOL.

Case, was, in fact, a leader at the time.  I know this for a fact.  Therefore, since leadership, is your big criteria - ergo, you must love Case.  You can't have it both ways, you see.

Yea I believe the QB leads the offense and its important for him to be a leader.  For you to tout Swoopes as a savior is just homer trash.

Whoa now, you are close to being out of line here.  First of all, I never said he was a savior, I said time will tell how he improves.  Also, I'm not fond of being told my comments are trash. 

 You said you cant compare players.  Really?  I guess no one compares players.  Coaches dont compare players when recruiting and deciding on which player to offer.  Judges dont compare players for awards.  Playoff Commitee doesnt compare teams for the final four.  Gotcha.

I don't compare VY, after four years of experience and being 23 years old, to Tyrone Swoopes after 10 games and being 19 years old.  But, look, you admit to having an agenda against Tyrone.  That basically disqualifies you, IMO, to having any sort of objectivity in the discussion.

If I had compared Ricky to Earl during his Heisman run all you homers would have been on here touting how great Ricky was.  But as soon as someone compares a mediocre overlyhyped player like Swoopes to another QB we snubbed for him that is in the NC hunt and in talks about the Heisman all of sudden its not relevant.

All of us 'homers" get it - You hate Swoopes and you love Barrett.  How do you feel about the Longhorns? Because Swoopes is the QB today and likely tomorrow and the next two years as well.

And why do you insist on saying that I, and others, think he is a savior? 

Here is what he is.  According to the coaches, he is the best QB on the team, today.  And he was the best QB on the team, when Ash went down.

 

[Hiphopopotamos]

Your comments make no sense at all.  So Case was a leader?  Why did I have to love Case? LOL.

Yea I believe the QB leads the offense and its important for him to be a leader.  For you to tout Swoopes as a savior is just homer trash.  You said you cant compare players.  Really?  I guess no one compares players.  Coaches dont compare players when recruiting and deciding on which player to offer.  Judges dont compare players for awards.  Playoff Commitee doesnt compare teams for the final four.  Gotcha.  

If I had compared Ricky to Earl during his Heisman run all you homers would have been on here touting how great Ricky was.  But as soon as someone compares a mediocre overlyhyped player like Swoopes to another QB we snubbed for him that is in the NC hunt and in talks about the Heisman all of sudden its not relevant.

You want to talk about wins lets talk about it.  Swoopes has beaten Kansas, Iowa State, OSU, Tech, and WV.  Other than WV the other teams are 6-25 in conference play.  We have scored 20 points in the 3rd quarter this year.  This is your savior?  

Low standards

The defense has held this team up this year not Swoopes.  I can make a case Swoopes played better in his first game vs UCLA than he has 3 out of the last 4 games.  Hence improving topic. I mean seriously 30% completion percentage over a 3 game stretch?  If it wasnt Harris and Shipley adjustments on routes it would probably be lower than that.

For you to say im wrong on Swoopes leadership abilities assumes you know he is a leader.  In which case you dont know what you are talking about unless you are in the huddles, locker room etc.  

Its obvious just by listening to him during press conference and watching him choke in the 2nd half of almost every game hes has played this year.  The only game where I can say I saw him lead this team to victory was Iowa State.

You mention "ponying up" High School data?  I guess you think Ohio State is a high school 

Would you please cite which three games you are talking about?

 

[DMAC]

           C/ATT                 Yrds                      QBR
Kstate 13/25                  106                        33.6
TT       13/25                  228                       49.7
WV      11/29                  124                       50.1
More like 46.8%.  

His First game:

24/34 196 51.6

 

[DMAC]

Swoopes development has saved the QB situation this year.  This cannot be denied and to do so only means you have an agenda. 

But oh it can be denied

 

[DMAC]

You mention legendary VY after 4 years to Swoopes.  

Compare leadership abilities of 2 kids that came out of HS the same year

Both wanted to come to Texas.  

Swoopes:

One is tagged as improving and "Saved the QB situation this year" and has been fantastic under the circumstances according to you.

Barrett:

10-1 as a starter

LEADS his team vocally as well as by example

Playing for a spot in the final four

Is in the Heisman talk after 11 games at Ohio State

Same age, same number of games, different results.

After reading this can put that blinder back on.

 

[doc longhorn]

You mention legendary VY after 4 years to Swoopes.  

Compare leadership abilities of 2 kids that came out of HS the same year

Both wanted to come to Texas.  

Swoopes:

One is tagged as improving and "Saved the QB situation this year" and has been fantastic under the circumstances according to you.

Barrett:

10-1 as a starter

LEADS his team vocally as well as by example

Playing for a spot in the final four

Is in the Heisman talk after 11 games at Ohio State

Same age, same number of games, different results.

After reading this can put that blinder back on.

Okay, let's say you are right - which you aren't.  What the hell can you do about it - except whine?

Barrett doesn't play for my beloved Longhorns, so I could give less of a crap about him. 

Swoopes DOES play for the Horns, so he gets my support - 100%.

Does he get yours?

 

[DMAC]

Well of course i am behind the horns, as I have been since McWillaims was the coach.

I just hope the horns bring in a JUCO QB.  Watson has already said he is opening it up in the next spring looking for a "Championship QB".  So your assumption that Swoopes is gonna be the starter for the next 2 years isnt a done deal.  Swoopes hasnt impressed me at all.  Ill be impressed if we can get lead and actually get some first downs in the 2nd half to give the defense a rest for once.

 

[DMAC]

Haha the big debate over the top 4 on ESPN is whether not the head to head with Baylor and TCU should count.  Hopefully Texas can put down TCU on Thursday and it will be a mute point.

 

[doc longhorn]

Well of course i am behind the horns, as I have been since McWillaims was the coach.

I just hope the horns bring in a JUCO QB.  Watson has already said he is opening it up in the next spring looking for a "Championship QB".  So your assumption that Swoopes is gonna be the starter for the next 2 years isnt a done deal.  Swoopes hasnt impressed me at all.  Ill be impressed if we can get lead and actually get some first downs in the 2nd half to give the defense a rest for once.

LOL!  My assumption is based on the fact that he is the starting QB for the University of Texas.  And, based on that and the fact that he WILL improve, I like his chances of remaining the starter.  Now, if Heard can beat him out then it will prove that Heard has surpassed Swoopes experience, abilities, understanding of the offense and the fact that he will be improving as well.  That will be quite an achievement and can only position Heard as an All Conference QB.

I'm big time fine with that, because the bottom line is that I love the Longhorns - regardless who is playing.  Now, if Heard struggles, I will advocate him having the same chance as Swoopes to gain experience, improve and help my beloved team. And I will rebuke guys, like you, that demonize him and try to compare him to All Americans, seniors and Heisman winners.  Because that would be ridiculous as well. 

Finally, if you are truly behind the Horns, as you say, then you would have to be 100% behind Tyrone Swoopes as well.  Right?

 

[DMAC]

LOL!  My assumption is based on the fact that he is the starting QB for the University of Texas.  And, based on that and the fact that he WILL improve.

Esch,

I realize that.  I was pointing out the second bolded fact above as an assumption. 

 

[Hiphopopotamos]

<edit>

Not even worth it...