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North & South

Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
40
Get a waiver for a Conference Championship game and have a North & South division. The team in each division with the best overall conference record plays for the CCG.

North Division

Oklahoma

Oklahoma State

Iowa State

Kansas State

Kansas

South Division

Texas

Baylor

TCU

TT

West Va.

 
The biggest problems I see with this is that one of the teams will have already beaten the other and with the alignment you have shown if KSU beat Baylor then the team with the best overall record, TCU, would be SOL.

My opinion is that we screwed the pooch when we signed away our GOR for a virtual eternity.

 
It would make every conference game important and even if you had lost an earlier game or 2, you could still have the best overall record in your division and play for the championship. Most likely in most years it would be Texas, Baylor, & TCU fighting for the south and OU & KSU in the north. Better option than adding 2 no name teams to the big 12 & diluting the TV money.

 
It would be silly to do round robin and have a title game. . . 

Either add 2-4 or 6 teams (we have the rights to Big14 and Big 16) or leave it alone. . . 

Teams to add (in order of desire)

BYU

UCF

USF

ECU

Navy

Cincy

Memphis

Colo State (think they have real potential to grow in a real conference)

Army

Air Force

 
It would be silly to do round robin and have a title game. . . 

Either add 2-4 or 6 teams (we have the rights to Big14 and Big 16) or leave it alone. . . 

Teams to add (in order of desire)

BYU

UCF

USF

ECU

Navy

Cincy

Memphis

Colo State (think they have real potential to grow in a real conference)

Army

Air Force
Alright, eCheese, let's go another round on this!   ;)

Do we really need UCF and USF?  It's basically the same media market, Tampa/Orlando.  ECU?  They're a distant 4th in North Carolina.  Why do you rank the Pirates so high?

Here is my "wish list" based on how many we potentially add.

  • 2 "football only" members? BYU & Boise State (assuming we'd do this to get a CCG)
  • 2 full members - BYU & Cincinnati
  • 4 full members - BYU, Colorado St, Cincinnati, UCF
  • 6 full members - BYU, Colorado St, Boise St, Cincinnati, UCF, & Memphis
BYU is clearly the only "slam dunk" addition, but now you gotta worry about not scheduling games on Sunday.  Their BYUtv fits seamlessly into our TV contracts.

 
I like the round robin set up but we need to have quality games the last weekend of the season. I am not in favor of adding crappy teams to the conference just to have 12-16 teams for a true conference championship. Just my opinion. If I had to pick it would probably be Boise State and Colorado State.

 
I like the round robin set up but we need to have quality games the last weekend of the season. I am not in favor of adding crappy teams to the conference just to have 12-16 teams for a true conference championship. Just my opinion. If I had to pick it would probably be Boise State and Colorado State.
Good point.

Let's just play meaningful "rivalry" games on the last weekend of the season.  Not Thanksgiving - the NFL has taken that over with 3 games.  Time to concede that day to the professionals.

UT vs Tech, OU vs OSU, TCU vs Baylor, and KU vs K-State. Yeah, WVU draws the short straw with ISU but that's the breaks.

Another blogger posted that TV partners have no incentive to pay the Big12 for staging a CCG or adding members.  Apparently, ESPN and FOX have all the inventory they need.  Thanks, but no thanks.

This scenario is certainly believable - CBS didn't renegotiate the SEC's tier 1 contract after they added Mizzou and aggie.  They're still gonna broadcast one game per week.  No "new" inventory.

 
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i don't think splitting 5-5 works. you can win the conf with 2 conf losses and 3 non-conf losses and still make it. pointless to play that game. 

I understand if we are just adding 2 teams then UCF/USF don't make sense bc same market. But adding UCF(larger) and BYU or Cincy would add 2 pretty decent TV markets. We have nobody to add that will add the "big name", BYU comes the closest by far. But UCF or Cincy would have to get better over time and schedule and beat a few of the bigger fish around them like Miami or Purdue/PSU level. 

 
OK, I'll try this again . . .

My "thought" (as in thinking this thru) is to add new TV markets (you guys do realize TV sets drive the bus don't you?) and reward teams for attendance. .  .thus the goal of any new team is to bring something to the table. . . .

Tampa and Orlando are considered SEPARATE TV markets ranking #13 and #18 respectively, combined TV audience of over 4,000,000 viewers . .their average attendance is 37K+ and 30K plus  thus they have local support already.

Oh, yeah fertile recruiting country

ECU, even better attendance (which means it is well supported) of 44K+ and in the #37 TV market in the nation, over 800,000, bigger than Austin for perspective.  + Decent recruiting country

The conference already shoved their heads up their azzes and added TCU instead of Louisville (why?????) now you want to argue we should add Boise?

And their 263,000 TV sets?     #109 in the country?????

Not to mention the 2nd shittiest field turf in the country after East Washington . .. .  .

If I'm going to add a school that doesn't do squat to make the conference better (no tv, no recruiting, where's teh value????) but make an absurdly long road trip, why not Sandy Eggo State which plays good football, a GREAT travel destination and you don't have to connect in a hub to fly there?

We have Tulane in our own back yard, 3X the TV sets of Boise St and GREAT recruiting. . . .

Colo State. ...in Denver though recruiting sucks only slightly less than Idaho (though I did meet a former Vandal and Mr Irrelevant last weekend, great guy)

Army/AF/Navy. . .. everyone of them in a much better TV market than Boise. . . . .

 
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OK, I'll try this again . . .

My "thought" (as in thinking this thru) is to add new TV markets (you guys do realize TV sets drive the bus don't you?) and reward teams for attendance. .  .thus the goal of any new team is to bring something to the table. . . .

Tampa and Orlando are considered SEPARATE TV markets ranking #13 and #18 respectively, combined TV audience of over 4,000,000 viewers . .their average attendance is 37K+ and 30K plus  thus they have local support already.

Oh, yeah fertile recruiting country

ECU, even better attendance (which means it is well supported) of 44K+ and in the #37 TV market in the nation, over 800,000, bigger than Austin for perspective.  + Decent recruiting country

The conference already shoved their heads up their azzes and added TCU instead of Louisville (why?????) now you want to argue we should add Boise?

And their 263,000 TV sets?     #109 in the country?????

Not to mention the 2nd shittiest field turf in the country after East Washington . .. .  .

If I'm going to add a school that doesn't do squat to make the conference better (no tv, no recruiting, where's teh value????) but make an absurdly long road trip, why not Sandy Eggo State which plays good football, a GREAT travel destination and you don't have to connect in a hub to fly there?

We have Tulane in our own back yard, 3X the TV sets of Boise St and GREAT recruiting. . . .

Colo State. ...in Denver though recruiting sucks only slightly less than Idaho (though I did meet a former Vandal and Mr Irrelevant last weekend, great guy)

Army/AF/Navy. . .. everyone of them in a much better TV market than Boise. . . . .
Echeese is right. It's how many butts can you put in the seats and how many can you get watching on TV. That drives, or should drive, everything. From conference alignment to teams selected for the playoffs.

 
OK, I'll try this again . . .

My "thought" (as in thinking this thru) is to add new TV markets (you guys do realize TV sets drive the bus don't you?) and reward teams for attendance. .  .thus the goal of any new team is to bring something to the table. . . .

Tampa and Orlando are considered SEPARATE TV markets ranking #13 and #18 respectively, combined TV audience of over 4,000,000 viewers . .their average attendance is 37K+ and 30K plus  thus they have local support already.

Oh, yeah fertile recruiting country

ECU, even better attendance (which means it is well supported) of 44K+ and in the #37 TV market in the nation, over 800,000, bigger than Austin for perspective.  + Decent recruiting country

The conference already shoved their heads up their azzes and added TCU instead of Louisville (why?????) now you want to argue we should add Boise?

And their 263,000 TV sets?     #109 in the country?????

Not to mention the 2nd shittiest field turf in the country after East Washington . .. .  .

If I'm going to add a school that doesn't do squat to make the conference better (no tv, no recruiting, where's teh value????) but make an absurdly long road trip, why not Sandy Eggo State which plays good football, a GREAT travel destination and you don't have to connect in a hub to fly there?

We have Tulane in our own back yard, 3X the TV sets of Boise St and GREAT recruiting. . . .

Colo State. ...in Denver though recruiting sucks only slightly less than Idaho (though I did meet a former Vandal and Mr Irrelevant last weekend, great guy)

Army/AF/Navy. . .. everyone of them in a much better TV market than Boise. . . . .
It's not necessarily TV markets, it's how many people actually tune in.  Number of TV sets helps sell conference networks, SECn, but we don't have one.  Military academies don't even register statistically unless they're playing each other.  [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Look who's at the top - lowly Boise State.  I guess you can make an argument for adding both UCF and USF. [/SIZE] ;)

Top Non P5+ND Schools by Viewership of Games against other non P5+ND Schools. List ordered by average TV viewership for those games. Large to small

Put numbers in at major change points Numbers in millions - 

Minimum of 4 games to get on list.  

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

Boise State /.91

BYU /.90

Fresno State /.79

UConn /.64

UCF /.58

Cincinnati /.50

USF

Wyoming

Utah State

Toledo

Houston

No. Illinois

Ohio

ECU /.31

Tulsa /.25

Tulane

Texas State

Temple

UNLV

Memphis /.16

Ordered by total viewers Numbers in millions

Boise State 6.4

BYU 6.3

UConn 4.5

UCF 3.5

Fresno State 3.2

Utah State 3.0

USF 2.9

Cincinnati 2.5

Houston 2.5

ECU 2.2

Wyoming 1.8

Toledo 1.7

No. Illinois 1.6

Tulsa 1.5

Ohio 1.5

Tulane 1.1

Temple 1.1

Texas State 0.9

Memphis 0.8

UNLV 0.6

 
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Week 14..  .Boise Utah State  .3

Week 13 Boise/Wyoming    .3

Week 12  Boise/SDSU .3    ECU and UCF both pulled .5

Week 9  Boise/BYU.  .6    wonder who was tuning in?  Hint, the mormons.

This from the link you provided. . . 

As I said, Boise by itself does not create compelling matchups. . . .UCF/USF/ECU/CSU/SDSU.  ..these are teams which have markets than can be developed with better matchups. . . 

I am reminded of Jodybo on OB arguing to add UH . .. another school that brings nothing to the table. . . 

We have to look beyond today and have the foresight to add teams in markets which can bring something to the table. . . we have enough ISU's and Baylors (tV wise) that drag the conference down. . . .

 
Week 14..  .Boise Utah State  .3

Week 13 Boise/Wyoming    .3

Week 12  Boise/SDSU .3    ECU and UCF both pulled .5

Week 9  Boise/BYU.  .6    wonder who was tuning in?  Hint, the mormons.

This from the link you provided. . . 

As I said, Boise by itself does not create compelling matchups. . . .UCF/USF/ECU/CSU/SDSU.  ..these are teams which have markets than can be developed with better matchups. . . 

I am reminded of Jodybo on OB arguing to add UH . .. another school that brings nothing to the table. . . 

We have to look beyond today and have the foresight to add teams in markets which can bring something to the table. . . we have enough ISU's and Baylors (tV wise) that drag the conference down. . . .
I notice you completely overlooked the ratings for the service academies you recommend adding.  But, I'm sure you'll be back next week after Army-Navy.  

So which is it?  TV markets or Ratings that we should concern ourselves with?  You like cherry-picking individual weeks, but a couple of your stalwarts, SDSU and ECU, barely register unless the opponent is P5.  SDSU is the Cougar High of SoCal.  ECU is the bottom-feeder of NC.

Your argument works against you, as well.  Note to self, "never get in a pissing match with eCheese".  Got it.  Now zip up your fly!

 
Memphis, BYU, Cincy? Pros/cons of schools floated for Big 12 expansion via Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20141210-memphis-byu-cincy-proscons-of-schools-floated-for-big-12-expansion.ece?hootPostID=a88bf15fcd2139409143b17f78b20f81

Big12map.jpg


 
I notice you completely overlooked the ratings for the service academies you recommend adding.  But, I'm sure you'll be back next week after Army-Navy.  

So which is it?  TV markets or Ratings that we should concern ourselves with?  You like cherry-picking individual weeks, but a couple of your stalwarts, SDSU and ECU, barely register unless the opponent is P5.  SDSU is the Cougar High of SoCal.  ECU is the bottom-feeder of NC.

Your argument works against you, as well.  Note to self, "never get in a pissing match with eCheese".  Got it.  Now zip up your fly!

the note should be never start a pissing contest with echeese. . .you are the one who got pissy not me. . . . .

To the bolded line. . . . .I used your link and documented boise does not draw the rating you claim. . sorry . ..  averaging point 3 a game doesn't "average" up to point 9

Rating is what you are doing today (BSU isn't doing what you claimed, while the schools I listed all do as well or better).

Market is your potential for growth. . . BSU is the worst dog listed from this standpoint. . .they have ZERO ability to grow their market beyond today .. . . .UCF and USF represent a market of over 4 MILLION TV set . ..they have huge upside . .. .

But it is BOTH ratings and market. . . a rating is nice but someone with vision/insight would look beyond today's ratings and judge upside potential (that is market) . .. Boise state has NONE . .. . coupled with the fact (as your map shows) it is not only isolated but devoid of air traffic so our basketball and volleyball and baseball (only played 1/2 of everyone else's regular season) cannot get there . .. . 

As for ECU being a bottom feeder. . . . .they sit in a TV market much larger than many in the BigXII already, their attendance is as good or better than the bottom half of the BigXII (thus they improve things) and they are a geographic rival for schools like WVU UCF and USF. . . .CFB is a regional game.  .. . .oh yeah, you will notice their games frequently draw LARGER TV ratings than Boise .. . . 

So if we let go of the emotional tantrums and consider real metrics (TV ratings, markets, ease of travel, regional rivalries, attendance with is a measure of support) .. . . .Boise St is largely left hanging. . . .

I am reminded of those who argued passionately for TCU over Louisville .. . . .not one reason to invite TCU but the BigXII made a huge bone head mistake and added a school that was easy. . . ..the SEC floated rumors they were looking at TCU.  .. good lord. ..the SEC would never CONSIDER TCU or Boise State . .. 

Yes, they play good football. . . neither would or is doing anything but build the brand. . . . . .this isn't hard, if you let go of the emotions. . . .

 
Alright, eCheese, let's go another round on this!   ;)


Didn't start the pissing contest. . . .but I did finish it though I am sure you will provide a counter arguement that passing on 2 Top 20 TV markets or 8 Top 50 TV markets in favor of #109 is wise. . . . . .

We need to play poker sometime. . . I love it when someone is way too proud of a pair of Jacks vs my flopped broadway

 
Didn't start the pissing contest. . . .but I did finish it though I am sure you will provide a counter arguement that passing on 2 Top 20 TV markets or 8 Top 50 TV markets in favor of #109 is wise. . . . . .

We need to play poker sometime. . . I love it when someone is way too proud of a pair of Jacks vs my flopped broadway
*sigh* Your TV market argument only works IF the school in question actually delivers the market.  You hate Cougar High because they don't deliver Houston.  You've argued vehemently that TCU doesn't deliver DFW.  I'm sorry, but SDSU doesn't deliver San Diego either, based on ratings.

Let's call a truce.  Both of us may be very wrong about who is added to the Big12.  It doesn't appear that expansion is in the cards short-term anyway (pun intended).  It's a moot point, but fun to speculate on and talk about.

I imagine you'd win the poker match, because I don't even know what a "flopped broadway" is!   :P

 
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