Lodge to A&M

[beevomav]

Sumlin isn't recruiting based on what he did at U of H. Sumlin has been at aggy for two years now.

It isn't about what any recruit saw as much as whether they believe in the coach's vision for the program and whether they think the coach can develop their talents to give them the opportunity to reach their individual goals. Sumlin is getting it done and Charlie Strong is evidently waiting for the last year of his contract in 2017 when he has had time to coach up his spectacular 2016 class. 

How did the University of Texas settle on a coach who was incapable of recruiting the state of Texas?

I thought I could be negative, but you have surpassed me on my most negative day. Worse is you are basing you thoughts with no evidence to back it up. 

Aggies are kicking our asses and you immediately blame Strong? I think you dismiss not only the job aTm is doing but the Manziel and SEC impact?

This might be a fair response next year at this time, but Strong hasn't coached a game,and the one thing he has proven that Sumlin hasn't is he can coach. 

Oh, and glad you weren't at the Alamo. 

 

[Pancho Negro]

Or, alternatively, identify the problem and fix it. 

Part of leadership is not being reactionary and seeing the big picture. Apparently, that has escaped you.

Everyone here (except you) knows that Strong's first season hasn't even resulted in a game being played. 

 

[Randolph Duke]

Part of leadership is not being reactionary and seeing the big picture. Apparently, that has escaped you.

Everyone here (except you) knows that Strong's first season hasn't even resulted in a game being played. 

So there is no need to call the fire department just because you see smoke. Wait until you see fire to take any actions. That is certainly one option. 

There are a lot of metrics upon which to judge whether the head coach is earning his $100,000/week. We just don't agree on the metrics. 

 

[texasdobbs]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

 

[streettopeschel]

Add #1 player in Texas for 2016 to the list. OL Greg Little just committed to aggy. I know rankings and stars don't matter.

about as much as commitments 20 months before signing day.

 

[doc longhorn]

Sumlin isn't recruiting based on what he did at U of H. Sumlin has been at aggy for two years now.

It isn't about what any recruit saw as much as whether they believe in the coach's vision for the program and whether they think the coach can develop their talents to give them the opportunity to reach their individual goals. Sumlin is getting it done and Charlie Strong is evidently waiting for the last year of his contract in 2017 when he has had time to coach up his spectacular 2016 class. 

How did the University of Texas settle on a coach who was incapable of recruiting the state of Texas?

Actually, Randolph, Sumlin has been recruiting the state of Texas since 2001.  Strong has been recruiting 6 months.  It's hardly fair to make your comparison as Strong has not had nearly the time Sumlin has to build relationships - not with just the recruits and their families, but with the HS coaches as well.  Even Saban could not have made up that big a difference.

Lets give it some time and see where things lie.

Sumlin's coaching record

Head Coach Texas A&M Aggies 2012 - 2013 Head Coach Houston Cougars 2008 - 2011 Co-Offensive Coordinator Oklahoma Sooners 2006 - 2007 Special Teams Coordinator Oklahoma Sooners 2003 - 2005 Assistant Head Coach Texas A&M Aggies 2001 - 2002

 

[Randolph Duke]

I understand how relationships with high school coaches are important.I also understand they take time. What amazes me is that Charlie Strong hasn't been able to deliver a compelling vision for the program that is resonating with prospects. None of the recruiting experts have offered a peep that I have read concerning Charlie Strong's vision that he is relating to the recruits. No one has asked the recruits to offer a synopsis of why was more compelling about Sumlin's or Briles' vision for their program as opposed to Charlie Strong's. Its as if what is said to recruits is as sacred as what is said in the confessional. 

Supposedly, Greg Little claimed he went with aggy because at aggy "You get to go against the best competition every day. Why wouldn't you want to play in the SEC close to home if you want to go to the NFL? All the guys you're going against will be in the NFL, so there's no better way to get ready for the league."

My response to that was So, Charlie Strong is ok with the perception that the 2013 aggy juggernaut of Rice, Sam Houston, SMU, Vanderbilt, UTEP, Mississippi State and Ole Miss and the 2014 juggernaut of Lamar, Rice, SMU, Mississippi State, Arkie, Ole Miss and Louisiana-Monroe, constitute "playing the best competition every day." Interesting. And playing for a coach who at 1-6 against ranked teams in conference has more players arrested for felonies than conference wins over ranked opponents. And to top it off, getting to spend four years in the craphole that is College Station playing for the cow college.

With the playoff structure as well as regular season games against OU and ooc games w the likes Notre Dame, UCLA and USC, anyone who signs with the Horns has the potential to play in a ton of games bigger than any games aggy will play.

With the playoff structure, there is no advantage to playing for SEC teams over Big 10, Big 12 or PAC teams. In each conference, players for winning programs will have 4, 5 or even 6 major games each season. I don't see how it would be so difficult to get prospects to understand the playoff structure ensures their exposure on the big stage if they deliver big time on the field. 

How key defensive players aren't interested in playing for Charlie Strong is baffling. That is the one thing that bothers me the most. Top defensive players believe they have more at risk playing for Charlie Strong than Kevin Sumlin. 

I think a lot of it has to do with the truly brilliant things Kevin Sumlin has done with Manziel. Not the on the field issues, the off the field things. Let's not forget that under any other coach other than Sumlin, Manziel would have been suspended at least one game and probably would never have won the Heisman. By not sitting Manziel for even one down after his arrest, Sumlin sent a clear message to recruits their "mistakes" would be overlooked at aggy. Don't forget that it took Claiborne's THIRD arrest (the one for multiple first degree felonies) within six months until he was suspended from the team. The other thing was the release of the Johnny Manziel vacation video of him on the beach in Southern Cal and Manziel announcing he had not been on campus all season, rather he took a "full schedule" of online classes.

What high school player wouldn't want to take a spring off from classes, hang on the beach in Cali, get stoned, do workouts, party and have someone else handle their online classwork? And that, as opposed to Coach Strong's approach of early study hall, showing up for every class and actually focusing on school. If there is an easy way and a hard way and both get the kid to the NFL (or so they believe) why take the tough road? THAT is what I think Strong is selling that Sumlin is laughing at.

Sumlin understands the kids much better than Strong. Kids want to study in their own way these days, and Charlie Strong saying "back in MY day we studied the old fashioned way, and so will you!" Sumlin is saying "screw it, take your classes online." I think the university needs to offer athletes more online options to attract athletes who aren't "classroom students." Yea, we all know the athletes have people taking the classes for them, but if the NCAA doesn't give a crap, the kids don't want to take classes to begin with, the courts are saying they are employees and not students and the parents just want to get the lottery ticket shot of an NFL career, maybe the university needs to make accommodations if it wants a sports program that is attractive to the athletes the coaches want to recruit as other schools are doing. 

And for those who missed the Johnny Manziel vacation/ aggy recruiting video:

 

[PropositionJoe]

I think you're significantly overestimating the number of A&M athletes that take online classes.

 

[Sejjr]

I understand how relationships with high school coaches are important.I also understand they take time. What amazes me is that Charlie Strong hasn't been able to deliver a compelling vision for the program that is resonating with prospects. None of the recruiting experts have offered a peep that I have read concerning Charlie Strong's vision that he is relating to the recruits. No one has asked the recruits to offer a synopsis of why was more compelling about Sumlin's or Briles' vision for their program as opposed to Charlie Strong's. Its as if what is said to recruits is as sacred as what is said in the confessional. 

Supposedly, Greg Little claimed he went with aggy because at aggy "You get to go against the best competition every day. Why wouldn't you want to play in the SEC close to home if you want to go to the NFL? All the guys you're going against will be in the NFL, so there's no better way to get ready for the league."

My response to that was So, Charlie Strong is ok with the perception that the 2013 aggy juggernaut of Rice, Sam Houston, SMU, Vanderbilt, UTEP, Mississippi State and Ole Miss and the 2014 juggernaut of Lamar, Rice, SMU, Mississippi State, Arkie, Ole Miss and Louisiana-Monroe, constitute "playing the best competition every day." Interesting. And playing for a coach who at 1-6 against ranked teams in conference has more players arrested for felonies than conference wins over ranked opponents. And to top it off, getting to spend four years in the craphole that is College Station playing for the cow college.

With the playoff structure as well as regular season games against OU and ooc games w the likes Notre Dame, UCLA and USC, anyone who signs with the Horns has the potential to play in a ton of games bigger than any games aggy will play.

With the playoff structure, there is no advantage to playing for SEC teams over Big 10, Big 12 or PAC teams. In each conference, players for winning programs will have 4, 5 or even 6 major games each season. I don't see how it would be so difficult to get prospects to understand the playoff structure ensures their exposure on the big stage if they deliver big time on the field. 

How key defensive players aren't interested in playing for Charlie Strong is baffling. That is the one thing that bothers me the most. Top defensive players believe they have more at risk playing for Charlie Strong than Kevin Sumlin. 

I think a lot of it has to do with the truly brilliant things Kevin Sumlin has done with Manziel. Not the on the field issues, the off the field things. Let's not forget that under any other coach other than Sumlin, Manziel would have been suspended at least one game and probably would never have won the Heisman. By not sitting Manziel for even one down after his arrest, Sumlin sent a clear message to recruits their "mistakes" would be overlooked at aggy. Don't forget that it took Claiborne's THIRD arrest (the one for multiple first degree felonies) within six months until he was suspended from the team. The other thing was the release of the Johnny Manziel vacation video of him on the beach in Southern Cal and Manziel announcing he had not been on campus all season, rather he took a "full schedule" of online classes.

What high school player wouldn't want to take a spring off from classes, hang on the beach in Cali, get stoned, do workouts, party and have someone else handle their online classwork? And that, as opposed to Coach Strong's approach of early study hall, showing up for every class and actually focusing on school. If there is an easy way and a hard way and both get the kid to the NFL (or so they believe) why take the tough road? THAT is what I think Strong is selling that Sumlin is laughing at.

Sumlin understands the kids much better than Strong. Kids want to study in their own way these days, and Charlie Strong saying "back in MY day we studied the old fashioned way, and so will you!" Sumlin is saying "screw it, take your classes online." I think the university needs to offer athletes more online options to attract athletes who aren't "classroom students." Yea, we all know the athletes have people taking the classes for them, but if the NCAA doesn't give a crap, the kids don't want to take classes to begin with, the courts are saying they are employees and not students and the parents just want to get the lottery ticket shot of an NFL career, maybe the university needs to make accommodations if it wants a sports program that is attractive to the athletes the coaches want to recruit as other schools are doing. 

Jesus dude, you really need to step away from the ledge. You continue to speak of Charlie's message not getting through, but you have yet to illustrate one factual point that supports your position. You even posted a stupid ESPN opinion piece, which is grossly inaccurate, as a support for your stance. Maybe you can find a piece from Clay Travis while you're at it? You said earlier in the thread "I'm not making this stuff up, folks." Yes, actually, you are making this stuff up. The 2015 class is not even close to being signed, Strong has been well received by coaches and recruits across the state, there are many highly ranked players that we are still in line to sign,and for the first time in memory, he is taking a national view of recruiting. We are doing better in Louisiana that we ever have, for example, and we might actually add some Florida talent to the team which will be tremendous.  

At this point, you are practically an aggy troll. I guess if Texas started using DJ's and helicopters, implemented a no-class/no-drug testing policy, let the players live where they want, and started blatantly paying them cash for their services, you'd finally be happy. Gig 'em.

 

[texasdobbs]

Did anyone watch the Strong story on the LHN. .. it seems that a lot of people counted him out... he is to small etc.... then he started coaching and the stereotypes happened to him and he rose to the ranks and became the most sought out up and coming coach.

What I'm getting at.... yall keep selling him short because he lives of that stuff and it seems that those that doubt him in the end look like fools.... "I pity the fool"

 

[Randolph Duke]

Jesus dude, you really need to step away from the ledge. You continue to speak of Charlie's message not getting through, but you have yet to illustrate one factual point that supports your position. You even posted a stupid ESPN opinion piece, which is grossly inaccurate, as a support for your stance. Maybe you can find a piece from Clay Travis while you're at it? You said earlier in the thread "I'm not making this stuff up, folks." Yes, actually, you are making this stuff up. The 2015 class is not even close to being signed, Strong has been well received by coaches and recruits across the state, there are many highly ranked players that we are still in line to sign,and for the first time in memory, he is taking a national view of recruiting. We are doing better in Louisiana that we ever have, for example, and we might actually add some Florida talent to the team which will be tremendous.  

At this point, you are practically an aggy troll. I guess if Texas started using DJ's and helicopters, implemented a no-class/no-drug testing policy, let the players live where they want, and started blatantly paying them cash for their services, you'd finally be happy. Gig 'em.

I know you think I need to look into the future to the final LOI lists in 2015 and base my comments on that list. Life doesn't work that way. We have to work with the info we have so far. In head to head recruiting battles with Kevin Sumlin, Charlie Strong has two successes and 13 rejections. You can take that as proof Charlie Strong's message is getting through, but I think it is proof his vision is being rejected in favor of the visio being articulated by Kevin Sumlin.

2-13 is not something I made up. It's fact. Adding Florida talent and "doing well in Louisiana" doesn't make up for getting crushed in Texas. I find it hilarious you think The University of Texas needs to take a national recruiting view to be successful when every other major program looks to Texas for a highly regarded talent. Maybe Charlie understands doing the exact opposite of what every other major program is doing is the way to go. If his plan is to throw in the towel on recruiting Texas and concentrate on recruiting nationally, then I will change my mind and start believing he needs to go immediately. 

And if you think I am an aggy troll, I would say that would answer any and all questions whether you know what you are talking about or not. Do you even have a clue of the work I have done over the past few years? I have dealt with aggys trying furiously to find out who I am. They have made death threats against me for exposing the bullshit of their school. They are stalking some guy in Houston, stalking some woman they think is his ex-wife and even stalking the guy's little kids because they think that guy is me. I have had to deal with federal law enforcement to make sure the guy in Houston and Houston police understand the guy, his wife and his kids are being wrongly stalked by a bunch of idiots from texags and secrant who believe anyone who dares speak the honest truth about tamu needs to be silenced by means of physical violence. That college football fans feel the need to stalk the guy's siblings and his little kids over my writing about the history of tamu is disgusting, but that is the aggy mentality. If you think I am an aggy troll you are so clueless you are not even worth dealing with. 

Look, Charlie Strong can be a successful coach and a crappy recruiter if he handles recruiting the right way (hire a staff that can recruit). As it stands right now, Charlie Strong hasn't shown he can recruit in Texas. End of story. It is up for him to prove he can. He has a lot to prove. 

 

[Sejjr]

I know you think I need to look into the future to the final LOI lists in 2015 and base my comments on that list. Life doesn't work that way. We have to work with the info we have so far. In head to head recruiting battles with Kevin Sumlin, Charlie Strong has two successes and 13 rejections. You can take that as proof Charlie Strong's message is getting through, but I think it is proof his vision is being rejected in favor of the visio being articulated by Kevin Sumlin.

2-13 is not something I made up. It's fact. Adding Florida talent and "doing well in Louisiana" doesn't make up for getting crushed in Texas. I find it hilarious you think The University of Texas needs to take a national recruiting view to be successful when every other major program looks to Texas for a highly regarded talent. Maybe Charlie understands doing the exact opposite of what every other major program is doing is the way to go. If his plan is to throw in the towel on recruiting Texas and concentrate on recruiting nationally, then I will change my mind and start believing he needs to go immediately. 

And if you think I am an aggy troll, I would say that would answer any and all questions whether you know what you are talking about or not. Do you even have a clue of the work I have done over the past few years? I have dealt with aggys trying furiously to find out who I am. They have made death threats against me for exposing the bullshit of their school. They are stalking some guy in Houston, stalking some woman they think is his ex-wife and even stalking the guy's little kids because they think that guy is me. I have had to deal with federal law enforcement to make sure the guy in Houston and Houston police understand the guy, his wife and his kids are being wrongly stalked by a bunch of idiots from texags and secrant who believe anyone who dares speak the honest truth about tamu needs to be silenced by means of physical violence. That college football fans feel the need to stalk the guy's siblings and his little kids over my writing about the history of tamu is disgusting, but that is the aggy mentality. If you think I am an aggy troll you are so clueless you are not even worth dealing with. 

Look, Charlie Strong can be a successful coach and a crappy recruiter if he handles recruiting the right way (hire a staff that can recruit). As it stands right now, Charlie Strong hasn't shown he can recruit in Texas. End of story. It is up for him to prove he can. He has a lot to prove. 

I know you are not an aggy, and I know you despise that program. In fact, your preoccupation with them is coloring any objectivity you should have when looking at the state of the Texas program on June 20. My problem with your comments is that you are stating AS FACT that recruits are roundly rejecting the message that Charlie is offering. This is not accurate, and it tarnishes the positive strides he is making on the recruiting trail despite the massive uphill climb he has to make versus aggy. The last 2 seasons of aggy football has been nothing short of remarkable good fortune for them, and they are using it to their advantage in recruiting. They are attracting talent because they are perceived as a hot program right now, and that should be obvious. Texas dug themselves into a massive hole by foundering through the final 2 years of Mack Brown, and the hole is hard to climb out of. But we are getting there, and this season will even the playing field in my opinion. a$m will continue to attract a certain type of player, but more of the top talent in Texas will start to return to the fold once they produce another 4-5 loss season. Smoke and mirrors is no way to build a program, and as aggy always does, they will prove to be their own worst enemy. What is happening right now is exactly what was predicted and expected by many of us. 

I also find it laughable that you think a regional recruiting strategy is the best way to go. Obviously we will always have the bulk of our classes from this state. Cherry-picking top talent from other talent-rich states is something we should have been doing all along, and we will be a better football team because of it.

 

[lakeman74]

I thought we were above being obsessed with aggy? In fact I thought they were the ones that were obsessed with us? Some of you guys are sweating this so much it is downright comical. Simmer down folks, simmer down now!

 

[Randolph Duke]

I know you are not an aggy, and I know you despise that program. In fact, your preoccupation with them is coloring any objectivity you should have when looking at the state of the Texas program on June 20. My problem with your comments is that you are stating AS FACT that recruits are roundly rejecting the message that Charlie is offering. This is not accurate, and it tarnishes the positive strides he is making on the recruiting trail despite the massive uphill climb he has to make versus aggy. The last 2 seasons of aggy football has been nothing short of remarkable good fortune for them, and they are using it to their advantage in recruiting. They are attracting talent because they are perceived as a hot program right now, and that should be obvious. Texas dug themselves into a massive hole by foundering through the final 2 years of Mack Brown, and the hole is hard to climb out of. But we are getting there, and this season will even the playing field in my opinion. a$m will continue to attract a certain type of player, but more of the top talent in Texas will start to return to the fold once they produce another 4-5 loss season. Smoke and mirrors is no way to build a program, and as aggy always does, they will prove to be their own worst enemy. What is happening right now is exactly what was predicted and expected by many of us.

I also find it laughable that you think a regional recruiting strategy is the best way to go. Obviously we will always have the bulk of our classes from this state. Cherry-picking top talent from other talent-rich states is something we should have been doing all along, and we will be a better football team because of it.

In all fairness to myself and others, I feel it best for me to not respond to your posting and to ignore your existence moving forward.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I thought we were above being obsessed with aggy? In fact I thought they were the ones that were obsessed with us? Some of you guys are sweating this so much it is downright comical. Simmer down folks, simmer down now!

Lakeman74, this is the first time I've seen you post and your avatar.  Kudos

 

[doc longhorn]

I think you're significantly overestimating the number of A&M athletes that take online classes.

I don't think quantity is the issue, Joe.  Aggies most important player certainly signed up for online courses - the jury is out on who took the tests, however.  You taking bets on this, by-the-way? 

 

[doc longhorn]

Jesus dude, you really need to step away from the ledge. You continue to speak of Charlie's message not getting through, but you have yet to illustrate one factual point that supports your position. You even posted a stupid ESPN opinion piece, which is grossly inaccurate, as a support for your stance. Maybe you can find a piece from Clay Travis while you're at it? You said earlier in the thread "I'm not making this stuff up, folks." Yes, actually, you are making this stuff up. The 2015 class is not even close to being signed, Strong has been well received by coaches and recruits across the state, there are many highly ranked players that we are still in line to sign,and for the first time in memory, he is taking a national view of recruiting. We are doing better in Louisiana that we ever have, for example, and we might actually add some Florida talent to the team which will be tremendous.  

At this point, you are practically an aggy troll. I guess if Texas started using DJ's and helicopters, implemented a no-class/no-drug testing policy, let the players live where they want, and started blatantly paying them cash for their services, you'd finally be happy. Gig 'em.

Nah, man, Randolph is good people and a solid Longhorn.  He just doesn't like Strong.  That is to say he has no animus against him personally, he just didn't think he was the man for the job.

He is wrong, of course. 

 

[Matt Cotcher]

I decided that the Duke is doing this and laughing hysterically. He's having fun at our expense.

Well done, sir.

 

[Etex Horn]

lakeman74's avatar for the win

 

[PropositionJoe]

I don't think quantity is the issue, Joe. Aggies most important player certainly signed up for online courses - the jury is out on who took the tests, however. You taking bets on this, by-the-way?

Eh I wouldn't go as far as to say that he wasn't taking his own tests but I also recognized audience here and know that will my statement will fall on deaf ears. Y'all are welcome to make whatever assumptions you'd like to make.

That being said Id say the way johnny was handled was the exception rather than the rule for an A&M athlete. I know tajh Boyd took all online classes his final semester at Clemson as well.

The notion of all A&M players being given the opportunity to take all of their classes online from day one (to the point that it would be used as a sales pitch) seems like a helluva straw man.