Estelle dismissed

[North Texas Golfer]

This is just a question - but maybe the right thread to raise it

As regards the football team - our penalty for smoking pot is the same as for domestic violence, 

Is this as it should be?

How do you/we know that the penalties are the same?

 

[Juan]

do we know this to be true? have we had any domestic violence episodes under CS?

Yes, but girlfriend not spouse

 

[utisdabomb12]

I believe that we test every other Tuesday

Could be the case. All I know is that apparently Estelle practiced yesterday and he was dismissed the next day. There are probably other things that could have warranted the dismissal in that timeframe but my guess would be that he failed another drug test. I know from reading the Louisville boards that once Strong lets an offender back on the team from a drug offense he immediately drug tests them. 

I don't think drugs were the only reason Estelle was dismissed but based on reports a failed drug test was the driving factor behind his initial suspension. From the article, "There's also a report out there that the two players failed a drug test that was administered on Wednesday, a report that makes sense given reports back in July that the players who were dismissed from the team after Big 12 Media Days had also failed a drug test."

It makes since. Estelle failed a drug test at the Big 12 media days, strike one. Failed a drug test before BYU, strike two. Failed a drug test on Monday, bye bye. 

http://www.burntorangenation.com/football/2014/9/3/6104457/desmond-harrison-kennedy-estelle-suspended-texas-longhorns

 

[Juan]

How do you/we know that the penalties are the same?

As regards the football team only, the harshest penalty possible is dismissal

(assuming we are talking about us and not Mike Leach)

 

[Marian Hinton]

This is just a question - but maybe the right thread to raise it

As regards the football team - our penalty for smoking pot is the same as for domestic violence, 

Is this as it should be?

I don't think this is true. 

When the two WRs allegedly assaulted the girl, they were kicked off immediately. 

As far as smoking pot, assuming that's what's going on, the players are seemingly getting numerous chances and continue to remain in the doghouse. That tells me, again if it is pot, they haven't stopped. They should be dismissed if they don't turn things around. 

 

[streettopeschel]

Yes, but girlfriend not spouse

who ? when ?

 

[Topstarr]

Glad to see Estelle leave.....bad influence....

 

[Juan]

who ? when ?

I was attempting to avoid writing rape, but I sort of tripped over myself in the process

 

[Juan]

I don't think this is true. 

When the two WRs allegedly raped the girl, they were kicked off immediately. 

As far as smoking pot, assuming that's what's going on, the players are seemingly getting numerous chances and continue to remain in the doghouse. That tells me, again if it is pot, they haven't stopped. They should be dismissed if they don't turn things around. 

OK, so, how many failed pot tests does it take?  Three, Five?

Amending the question, should 3 failed pot tests receive the same punishment as an alleged rape?

It's just a question.  I realize it's Charlie's system and he is not asking any of us our opinion.

 

[streettopeschel]

OK, so, how many failed pot tests does it take?  Three, Five?

Amending the question, should 3 failed pot tests receive the same punishment as an alleged rape?

It's just a question.  I realize it's Charlie's system and he is not asking any of us our opinion.

in the legal system, no. but that's not what this is.

in my job, maybe yours too, if i failed ONE drug test, i'm out. that's not the same as an alleged rape either.  

for that matter, skipping classes isn't the worst thing you can do either, but CS has made it clear he takes that seriously and i suepect the penalties range up to dismissal from the team.

 

[utisdabomb12]

OK, so, how many failed pot tests does it take?  Three, Five?

Amending the question, should 3 failed pot tests receive the same punishment as an alleged rape?

It's just a question.  I realize it's Charlie's system and he is not asking any of us our opinion.

I think it's nonsensical to compare punishments in terms of rape and failed pot tests. The only recourse Strong has for an alleged rape is to dismiss the players. I don't consider the two to be the "same punishment". I'm sure Strong wanted to beat down Meander and Sanders, but his only recourse was to kick the two players off the team. The fact that the players were given 3 chances signals that the offenses are much different. Strong doesn't have the same reach as the court of law since "punishment" handed out can only be severe as dismissal. 

 

[monarch]

please god, not more NEGATIVE NATIONAL HEADLINES!​

just how much more of this weekly / monthly crap can we continue to take?​

how can coach strong ever expect to finally field an actual TEAM... if his TEAM is constantly in a state of TURMOIL?​

today, we just lost a great prospective TE recruit to arkansas.... who's next?​

 

[Marian Hinton]

OK, so, how many failed pot tests does it take?  Three, Five?

Amending the question, should 3 failed pot tests receive the same punishment as an alleged rape?

It's just a question.  I realize it's Charlie's system and he is not asking any of us our opinion.

Legally? No way. 

For a football team, absolutely. If you can't get your act together after multiple warnings, you don't deserve your scholarship. 

 

[Juan]

I think it's nonsensical to compare punishments in terms of rape and failed pot tests. 

As was noted above, several times, the question was limited to the football team (thus not including the police, the criminal justice system or even the school),

A football team cannot arrest, indict or try.  It cannot even, on its own, kick a player out of school.

The most it can do, as was also noted several times above, is dismiss from the team (i.e., rescind a scholarship).

This is the maximum punishment allowed any college football, no matter the offense.

However, not all all college football teams employ this maximum punishment in the same manner.

Coach Strong's system is severe in terms of punishment.  His rules are akin to zero tolerance or mandatory sentencing - there is little to no room for discretion.

And, under his system, a player can be dismissed from the team if he is caught smoking pot (the number of times he must be caught seems to vary somewhat depending on whose account you read).

In any event, the point being that the max punishment from this team for smoking pot is indeed the same as that of alleged rape.  Not just effectively but actually.

The original question was not - is this so.  The original question was - should it be so.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

As was noted above, several times, the question was limited to the football team (thus not including the police, the criminal justice system or even the school),

A football team cannot arrest, indict or try.  It cannot even, on its own, kick a player out of school.

The most it can do, as was also noted several times above, is dismiss from the team (i.e., rescind a scholarship).

This is the maximum punishment allowed any college football, no matter the offense.

However, not all all college football teams employ this maximum punishment in the same manner.

Coach Strong's system is severe in terms of punishment.  His rules are akin to zero tolerance or mandatory sentencing - there is little to no room for discretion.

And, under his system, a player can be dismissed from the team if he is caught smoking pot (the number of times he must be caught seems to vary somewhat depending on whose account you read).

In any event, the point being that the max punishment from this team for smoking pot is indeed the same as that of alleged rape.  Not just effectively but actually.

The original question was not - is this so.  The original question was - should it be so.

I have no problem with it being so since you have to screw up multiple times with getting caught smoking pot.

 

[streettopeschel]

As was noted above, several times, the question was limited to the football team (thus not including the police, the criminal justice system or even the school),

A football team cannot arrest, indict or try.  It cannot even, on its own, kick a player out of school.

The most it can do, as was also noted several times above, is dismiss from the team (i.e., rescind a scholarship).

This is the maximum punishment allowed any college football, no matter the offense.

However, not all all college football teams employ this maximum punishment in the same manner.

Coach Strong's system is severe in terms of punishment.  His rules are akin to zero tolerance or mandatory sentencing - there is little to no room for discretion.

And, under his system, a player can be dismissed from the team if he is caught smoking pot (the number of times he must be caught seems to vary somewhat depending on whose account you read).

In any event, the point being that the max punishment from this team for smoking pot is indeed the same as that of alleged rape.  Not just effectively but actually.

The original question was not - is this so.  The original question was - should it be so.

yes. coach's team, coach's rules.

I've not read any accounts that say it's 'zero tolerance'. everything i've seen was the players had multiple tests.

also, if you believe joeywa's post, this was less about drugs than it was about attitude. is a bad attitude the equivalent of rape? of course not. doesn't mean it's not still grounds for dismissal at the coach's discretion.

 

[joeywa]

please god, not more NEGATIVE NATIONAL HEADLINES!​

just how much more of this weekly / monthly crap can we continue to take?​

how can coach strong ever expect to finally field an actual TEAM... if his TEAM is constantly in a state of TURMOIL?​

today, we just lost a great prospective TE recruit to arkansas.... who's next?​

Help! Help! The sky is falling!!

The TE recruit was a piggy lean most of the way. There still may be some turns in the road for him before NSD. This is merely an oral commit. UT coaches are still in contact from everything I've read.

And maybe we should just suspend the football program altogether because of a few bad apples; makes sense, right? Of course not. There are a ton of good kids doing things the right way on this Texas team. Easy rules. Just follow them. If not you're gone. Period. Simple concept.

No need to hit the panic button because of the dismissals of a few numbskulls.

 

[streettopeschel]

Help! Help! The sky is falling!!

The TE recruit was a piggy lean most of the way. There still may be some turns in the road for him before NSD. This is merely an oral commit. UT coaches are still in contact from everything I've read.

And maybe we should just suspend the football program altogether because of a few bad apples; makes sense, right? Of course not. There are a ton of good kids doing things the right way on this Texas team. Easy rules. Just follow them. If not you're gone. Period. Simple concept.

No need to hit the panic button because of the dismissals of a few numbskulls.

too late.

 

[joeywa]

too late.

damnit. I think the weight of these clouds is gonna kill me!

 

[utisdabomb12]

please god, not more NEGATIVE NATIONAL HEADLINES!

just how much more of this weekly / monthly crap can we continue to take?

how can coach strong ever expect to finally field an actual TEAM... if his TEAM is constantly in a state of TURMOIL?

today, we just lost a great prospective TE recruit to arkansas.... who's next?

Who cares what the headlines say? As long as Strong is doing the right thing for the program I could give two craps what people like Clay Travis and Paul Finebaum think. This is why I like Strong. He doesn't give a crap what others think of him. He's going to do it his way, that mentality breeds success.