Burnt Ends (1-5)

[odell327]

He dislikes Texas because he grew up in an anti-Texas environment. His daddy was an aggy. And he has been pounded with anti-Texas propaganda since he committed to TAMU.

He probably thinks UT is evil.

He hates Texas for the same reasons I hate A&M. I was raised that way and its ingrained in my DNA.

 

[CCausey11]

Gonna disagree, again.

This is the time when your future quarterback gets meaningful snaps with the 1st team. It's part of the advantage of having bowl practices - not just to win a bottom tier bowl game.

So, no, IMO it's not academic. It's out of the ordinary to do what Watson did. And that's why Wick spoke up.

I don't want to see Swoopes take another snap. Seriously. I have seen Heard play in person a couple of times while he was at Guyer and know that I wasn't watching an aberration. He didn't drive through the Austin city limit sign and suddenly become an inferior player. Not buying it at all. But that's what Watson has been selling to anyone who would listen.

I see Heard starting next year . . . and I think we'll see a dramatic improvement at QB. There are things that Heard does that couldn't be coached into Swoopes.

That said, I know if Heard goes down we are back to square one so I do feel there needs to be at least a serviceable QB added to this class.

The story I shared re Watson was something I heard from several sources, which made me more confident. 

 Agree with you SHL...what a wasted opportunity.  We did the smart thing in red-shirting Heard but then it sounds like Watson dropped the ball big time in the bowl prep.  I wonder why Watson seems to be so down on Heard?  Is it because he was a Mack recruit?  It would be a real shame if his development was impaired because Watson for whatever reason doesn't like the kid.  I hope Charlie dropping the hammer on the offensive coaches and firing a few of them will stop some of this BS.

 

[TexasHorns_]

He had better make a significant jump in performance, if so.

Look, as bad as Swoopes has played, Heard has played worse.  I'm not trying to defend Swoopes with this statement, that is just the word from the coaches.

Don't you think Strong would have jerked Heards shirt in an instant if he could have shown ANY superior ability over Swoopes?  SWOOPES, for gods sake.

No, this teams needs an experienced transfer or a JUCO, IMO.

Heard is not the answer - he is not making the transition from HS to college, it appears 

You have no evidence to back up your claim that Heard is not making the transition. Strong knew this season was going to be a trash season. He saw what he had on this team. There was no point in burning Heard's shirt to try to save something that wasn't going to be savable. Strong started getting rid of the rot in that locker room and by all accounts he is still at it. Add this recruiting class to a new attitude in ATX, and Charlie is right on schedule to get things turned around. We won't know anything for sure about Heard until the spring game. 

 

[Mike Garland]

Sirhornsalot -what does Kyler not like about Texas?

The scheme of the offense.

The recent struggle.

And that Heard is already on the team.

 

[doc longhorn]

You have no evidence to back up your claim that Heard is not making the transition. Strong knew this season was going to be a trash season. He saw what he had on this team. There was no point in burning Heard's shirt to try to save something that wasn't going to be savable. Strong started getting rid of the rot in that locker room and by all accounts he is still at it. Add this recruiting class to a new attitude in ATX, and Charlie is right on schedule to get things turned around. We won't know anything for sure about Heard until the spring game. 

You are right - I have no personal evidence at all.  I only know what I have heard.  And what I have heard comes from the coaches and it just sounds as if he is struggling with the transition.

But this is not uncommon with a true freshman anyway. 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I understand being enamored with Heard, because of his high school exploits - they were awesome.  But there is a world of difference between HS and D-1 college - where you are playing against talented and full grown men instead of high school boys. 

As I have said, I would love to see Heard be able to perform in college like he did in HS - that's good for my beloved horns, and my disposition.   But he can't make chicken salad out of chicken poo - poo, no matter how good he is.  And that is what our OL and receivers are.

Also, if you say he performed badly because he was going against the first team defense with walk on's- what the hell do you think he would have done against TCU or K-State with the OL and receivers we had?

I can pretty well assure you, like Swoopes, he would have been running for his life and because he weighs a buck 85, he would probably wind up being killed.  And it still can't be discounted that he was a true freshman.

So, the question remains, what miraculous change will now cause him to be able to successfully take over the reins next year?  And what makes you think he will be successful even if he does?

At Guyer he had a loaded team, an awesome OL and  wr's - that had played together for 3 years. 

I hope you are right, SHL, but I have been told that Heard is simply not ready.  And I have been told this the entire season. 

And you know better than to lay all the blame on Watson - he is not coaching in a vacuum.

Finally, if you truly believe that Heard should have started, then you have to believe our coaches suck for not playing him.  And I think you are smart enough to know that isn't realistic.

I understand there is a difference. But it's no different for Heard than it would be for Murray, Gentry, etc., except Heard has a year in the system now.

Again, I don't think Austin, Texas is a QB killer. Nothing has happened to Heard to change who he was on the football field when I saw him. You can't say he was a "system QB" as you would GG. Heard made that offense work.

To answer your question with regard to "what the hell do I think he would have done against TCU, etc.," . . . perhaps if he were playing behind a 1st team OL he might look a tad better and be somewhat more successful than if he were playing with the walk-on OL.

Heard faced the Big 12's best defense every single day. Why would TCU or KSU cause me pause?

I have not proposed that "Heard should have started." Haven't said that at all so I can't argue with you on something I've not said and do not agree with.

My complaint (though I didn't lodge one) is like Wickline's - you put your QB of the future in bowl practices and let him have some meaningful time. Period. I'm glad they kept the shirt on him.

Guyer wasn't nearly as loaded as say, Allen. I trust you're not going to try to tell me Murray looked good because of their system or the talent he was surrounded with? No, in Guyer's case, Heard made that team what it was, not the other way around.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

The scheme of the offense.

The recent struggle.

And that Heard is already on the team.

The aggy version:

- lack of defense (offense always in a shootout)

- gangsta atmosphere, off-field issues, lack of discipline

- Kyle Allen, Kenny Hill

But hey, it's not the next four years of my life.

 

[streettopeschel]

We've seen heralded recruits flame and lesser thought of guys flourish.

Nobody has seen heard play a down of college football.

Who the hell knows?

 

[Sirhornsalot]

We've seen heralded recruits flame and lesser thought of guys flourish.

Nobody has seen heard play a down of college football.

Who the hell knows?

Yes, we have. But we've also known why in most cases. I look forward to seeing Heard play. And I think we will, obviously.

There's no excuse for what Watson did. Even if you thought Heard was a true DT and had no business at QB, you have to at least find out. You can't do that when the kid is playing scrub team all the time. And of course he won't look good in that role.

For the record and to the board, I'm in disagreement with DocLonghorn on this one but I do respect him, his sources and find myself agreeing with him most of the time. Solid poster, he is. I just have reason to believe what I believe in this case, much better than 4th person, and I can't post it. Doc, if you PM me I can explain.

 

[Matt Cotcher]

 

[Sirhornsalot]

 

[doc longhorn]

I understand there is a difference. But it's no different for Heard than it would be for Murray, Gentry, etc., except Heard has a year in the system now.

I'm not sure what you are saying with this - how does this apply?

Again, I don't think Austin, Texas is a QB killer. Nothing has happened to Heard to change who he was on the football field when I saw him. You can't say he was a "system QB" as you would GG. Heard made that offense work.

We didn't say GG was a system QB until he failed at UT, far from it, the fan base was swooning over him when he was recruited.

To answer your question with regard to "what the hell do I think he would have done against TCU, etc.," . . . perhaps if he were playing behind a 1st team OL he might look a tad better and be somewhat more successful than if he were playing with the walk-on OL.

LOL!  so you think he would have performed better with our wr's and OL - against our D? 

Heard faced the Big 12's best defense every single day. Why would TCU or KSU cause me pause?

Because he would face the Big 12's best defenses every week with our OL and wr's.  Just like Swoopes had to.

I have not proposed that "Heard should have started." Haven't said that at all so I can't argue with you on something I've not said and do not agree with.

My comment was not necessarily aimed at you - there are those that are saying he should have started from the get go, however.  Which is ridiculous.

My complaint (though I didn't lodge one) is like Wickline's - you put your QB of the future in bowl practices and let him have some meaningful time. Period. I'm glad they kept the shirt on him.

Do you actually believe the 3 weeks of bowl practice would cause some kind of epiphany for Heard?  If anything, it should have helped our OL - which it obviously didn't.

Guyer wasn't nearly as loaded as say, Allen. I trust you're not going to try to tell me Murray looked good because of their system or the talent he was surrounded with? No, in Guyer's case, Heard made that team what it was, not the other way around.

You will never convince me that one single player made a team - sorry.

I have said this before, the kid was fantastic in high school and, if anything, I am completely disappointed he didn't show out last year.   This, alone, should throw a red flag out to everyone.  Unless the coaches had some overriding agenda against him or they lied about their position on red shirts, I can only surmise his wonderful high school talents didn't transfer to college.  Coaches are not stupid and if Heard had all of these transcendent abilities his young ass would have been starting, regardless of being a  freshman or red shirting - particularly after Swoopes woeful performance in the spring game.

 

[doc longhorn]

We've seen heralded recruits flame and lesser thought of guys flourish.

Nobody has seen heard play a down of college football.

Who the hell knows?

No fan has seen him - but the coaches have. 

Look, the official coaches word in the pressers has been he is not ready.  They didn't say he would NEVER be ready.  So there is that to hope for.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

For some reason, I am not able quote post #51 above from Doc Longhorn and neither can I copy and paste the last paragraph.

I have said this before, the kid was fantastic in high school, and if anything, I am completely disappointed he didn't show out last year. This, alone, should throw a red flag out to everyone. Unless the coaches have some overriding agenda against him or they lied about their positions on redshirts, I can only surmise his wonderful high school talents didn't transfer to college. Coaches are not stupid and if Heard had all these transcendent abilities his young ass would have been starting, regardless of being a freshman or redshirting - particularly after Swoopes woeful performance in the spring game.

So because a kid doesn't show out in his true freshman year you are completely disappointed, and it should throw a red flag out to everyone, and you surmise that his wonderful high school talents didn't transfer to college? Really? YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!

Go ahead. Name every QB in the history of college Texas Longhorn football who "showed out" in his true freshman year. I'll give you a hint. It's an extremely short list. Especially when you compare it to the number of QB's who did nothing in their true freshman years but turned out to be stars. Using your logic and reasoning, you would have surmised that the wonderful high school talents of Vince Young and Colt McCoy didn't transfer to college since neither of them "showed out" in the their true freshman year.

What you wrote in that last paragraph is simply mind-bottling! Come on, you can't really believe what you wrote, can you?

 

[doc longhorn]

For some reason, I am not able quote post #51 above from Doc Longhorn and neither can I copy and paste the last paragraph.

I have said this before, the kid was fantastic in high school, and if anything, I am completely disappointed he didn't show out last year. This, alone, should throw a red flag out to everyone. Unless the coaches have some overriding agenda against him or they lied about their positions on redshirts, I can only surmise his wonderful high school talents didn't transfer to college. Coaches are not stupid and if Heard had all these transcendent abilities his young ass would have been starting, regardless of being a freshman or redshirting - particularly after Swoopes woeful performance in the spring game.

So because a kid doesn't show out in his true freshman year you are completely disappointed, and it should throw a red flag out to everyone, and you surmise that his wonderful high school talents didn't transfer to college? Really? YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!

Why can't I be?   I saw him play in HS as well and he was a fantastic talent.  Considering Swoopes was his only competition and SUCKED in the spring game then, yeah, it's pretty disappointing that Heard, talents and all, couldn't beat him out.

 

Go ahead. Name every QB in the history of college Texas Longhorn football who "showed out" in his true freshman year. I'll give you a hint. It's an extremely short list. Especially when you compare it to the number of QB's who did nothing in their true freshman years but turned out to be stars. Using your logic and reasoning, you would have surmised that the wonderful high school talents of Vince Young and Colt McCoy didn't transfer to college since neither of them "showed out" in the their true freshman year.

That is correct.  VY's and McCoy's talents DIDN'T show out as freshman - and even as sophs, for that matter.  Were you ready to bury them because of it?

Because, actually, you have just made the same argument I made about Swoopes - and for the same reasons.  But that is another argument.

My response was because of SHL and the situation we were in when Ash went down.  In spite of Heard's wonderful HS talents, he still couldn't beat out Swoopes - who literally sucked in the spring game.  You don't consider that a red flag - freshman or no?  And, remember, Swoopes for all practical purposes was a freshman as well.

What you wrote in that last paragraph is simply mind-bottling mind boggling! Come on, you can't really believe what you wrote, can you?

Yes, I can.  And I have already given you the reasons why.

You know, you and I are really not that far apart, on the reasoning, when playing young and inexperienced QB's.  I have trumpeted your position, ad nauseum, over the entire season.

So I will ask you this - if you are able to remove emotion and if you truly believe what you said in your second paragraph, then what is your position on Swoopes?

On a totally separate note, being as you are a north Texas golfer, have you ever played Meadowbrook and/or Colonial in Fort Worth?

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I'm not sure what you are saying with this - how does this apply?

What you’re trying to suggest about Heard can be said about Murray or practically every single QB who plays HS ball.

We didn't say GG was a system QB until he failed at UT, far from it, the fan base was swooning over him when he was recruited.

Well, maybe you didn’t. 

LOL!  so you think he would have performed better with our wr's and OL - against our D? 

As opposed to doing the same with a walk-on OL? Hell to the yea. But your feedback is based on how he’s done with walk-on protection. And I’d imagine there are moments for a kid who has been told that under no circumstances will you be playing.

Because he would face the Big 12's best defenses every week with our OL and wr's.  Just like Swoopes had to.

No, not daily.. Our first team D was not running the opposing team’s D, either. BTW, you never heard anything out of Swoopes practice reports that ever made you have hope. So yea, Swoopes look bad even though he knew the entire team depended on him as opposed to knowing he’d never play.

My comment was not necessarily aimed at you - there are those that are saying he should have started from the get go, however.  Which is ridiculous.

Fair enough, but it was said to me and I felt I was expected to account for that.

Do you actually believe the 3 weeks of bowl practice would cause some kind of epiphany for Heard?  If anything, it should have helped our OL - which it obviously didn't.

Having been a QB myself, I think if he goes one single series with the 1st team O, he’s a better quarterback when it’s over. Every snap matters.

You will never convince me that one single player made a team - sorry.

They don’t win two state titles without him. Dude made gold out of straw at times.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

No fan has seen him - but the coaches have. 

Look, the official coaches word in the pressers has been he is not ready.  They didn't say he would NEVER be ready.  So there is that to hope for.

I'm a fan. I've seen him twice. Go ahead, tell me that a burnt orange uniform change transformed him.

There are reasons for what coaches say. Sometimes they say stuff to avoid having to talk more about it. What better way to head off criticism of your own actions (not pulling the shirt on Heard) when Swoopes can't find his toothbrush and everyone is scratching their head and thinking "Charlie thinks this is Texas-starter worthy?"

Watson has said he's not ready, but obviously not everyone on the staff has agreed with that. It's really tough to look ready when you're running behind a walk-on OL. Wickline said as much.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Okay Doc, I figure out that I can't "Quote" your posts because you have replied within the body of a post that you quoted. I still don't know why I can't copy and paste on this board when I can other boards. So if anyone can help with that please feel free to PM me.

Now on to your latest response to me in the above post #54.

Okay, I guess you are serious. Or, you just like to take the contrarian view in order to spark a good discussion or debate. Not sure which at this point

Your statements about VY and McCoy and the question you asked have me confused because you basically took my position. However, my wife will tell you that it's not hard to confuse me

To answer your question; No, it does not throw up a red flag at all to me that Heard could not "beat out" Swoopes. I think there's a lot more to that story than meets the eye, some of which has been alluded to by SirHorns.

And Swoopes was in his second year in the program and had even enrolled early so, no, he was not for all practical purposes a freshman.

What is my position on Swoopes? I said after the Baylor game that Swoopes does NOT have it. By then, he had started a few games and was in his second year in the program. Not halfway through his true freshman year.

On a totally separate note, I have never played Meadowbrook or Colonial. I could play Colonial if I wanted to but I'm not willing to pay $300 to do so.

 

[doc longhorn]

I'm not sure what you are saying with this - how does this apply?

What you’re trying to suggest about Heard can be said about Murray or practically every single QB who plays HS ball.

Once again, I'm not understanding the point of your remark.  What was I trying to suggest about Heard?

We didn't say GG was a system QB until he failed at UT, far from it, the fan base was swooning over him when he was recruited.

Well, maybe you didn’t. 

Are you saying you were calling him out as nothing more than a system QB, when he was recruited?  If so, you were the lone wolf, my friend.  Even the recruiting sites ranked him the #1 QB in the nation.

LOL!  so you think he would have performed better with our wr's and OL - against our D? 

As opposed to doing the same with a walk-on OL? Hell to the yea. But your feedback is based on how he’s done with walk-on protection. And I’d imagine there are moments for a kid who has been told that under no circumstances will you be playing.

Why do you keep saying all he played with were the walk on's?  This is categorically not true.  In fact, it is preposterous.  I know you know better than this.

Because he would face the Big 12's best defenses every week with our OL and wr's.  Just like Swoopes had to.

No, not daily.. Our first team D was not running the opposing team’s D, either. BTW, you never heard anything out of Swoopes practice reports that ever made you have hope. So yea, Swoopes look bad even though he knew the entire team depended on him as opposed to knowing he’d never play.

My comment was not necessarily aimed at you - there are those that are saying he should have started from the get go, however.  Which is ridiculous.

Fair enough, but it was said to me and I felt I was expected to account for that.

Do you actually believe the 3 weeks of bowl practice would cause some kind of epiphany for Heard?  If anything, it should have helped our OL - which it obviously didn't.

Having been a QB myself, I think if he goes one single series with the 1st team O, he’s a better quarterback when it’s over. Every snap matters.

I was a QB in high school as well - admittedly as a backup to Mike Cotton.  But I took snaps, OFTEN, with the 1st O and against the 1st D.  That was simply a requirement in the event that Cotton went down.  Are you telling me that Heard didn't go against the 1st D with the 1st O?  Do you believe our coaches would not have him prepared?

You will never convince me that one single player made a team - sorry.

They don’t win two state titles without him. Dude made gold out of straw at times.

He doesn't win two state titles without them either.  There is no such thing as a one man team.

 

[doc longhorn]

This is where everyone gets mad at me and starts calling me a Swoopes lover and an apologist for him.  It's not that at all, I'm just a realist.  Hell, I didn't want Swoopes to be the QB at all.  I wanted Ash and I wanted Swoopes and Heard to red shirt. 

And I believed him, and still do, when Charlie Strong said he was going to play the best players, regardless of experience or classification.  And he said the best player would play, regardless of a red shirt as well.

So, when Ash went down, I expected Swoopes (the most experienced backup - no matter how little he had) to step in.  After I saw the spring game, I expected Heard with his marvelous talents and based on what Strong had said, to be the starter.

Then the fall practices happened and the reports were that Swoopes was performing well and Heard was not.  The coaches were saying publically that Heard wasn't ready and the behind the scenes reports were that Heard's practices were awful, as well.

So Swoopes started and the Heard promoters were unmerciful on him.  They cut him zero slack and it was totally unfair.  In essence he was no more experienced than Heard and he was playing behind, arguably, the worst OL in the conference with mediocre, at best, receivers.  So that kid got the crap beat out of him throughout the year and when we played teams with outstanding defenses, he was shredded and lost any semblance of self confidence he might have had.  He started pressing in desperation and made gawdawful mistakes and had we had anyone even close to his ability, he should have been pulled and let them play.  He stunk the place up in the last two games and, frankly, I don't know if he can ever recover because I think he has been ruined - ala GG.  It doesn't look good.  And that is bad for UT.

So here we are with two scholarship QB's - one with a severe confidence problem and one that has struggled in practice and has no game experience at all.  And the reality is, had both played behind our OL, we would have TWO QB's with confidence problems.

SHL is of the opinion that had Heard not practiced with walk on's he would not have looked so bad in the practices.  Well, Heard got every chance to win the starting job, but failed to do it.  And he got his chances early in the season when we didn't have the awful attritions in the OL.  He still didn't perform as well as Swoopes.  And, Heard did not spend the season only playing with walk on's anyway - that is simply not true.

But here is some more reality that most will not like.

Today, the starting QB job is Swoopes to lose - we should all understand this.  That means Heard or any other QB is going to have to outperform him to take the job.  That is going to be a tall order, even with probable prejudice by some coaches against him.