Texas and Notre Dame talking...

[Nakona Horn]

Nakona, I do respect your opinion, and agree that the BIG has its shortcomings and unless Oklahoma would move too, it may not be the best fit. The only thing about viewing the ACC on potential is that it has a history of coming no where near that potential. This is why we need to view it through the lens of today and yesterday.

Remember in 2003 when Miami and VA tech joined the ACC? It was going ot be the most dominant conference yet. No one would come close to a conference with Miami, Va Tech, FSU and Clemson. At that time Maryland was coming off a 10 win season and was a team on the verge. We are still waiting for this potential to be proven true. Will it happen? - I cant answer that question and neither can you. You can point to demographics and recruiting territories and such, but there are a lot of inherent ACC issues that would prevent them from overcoming these hurdles even if everything falls right.

The big thing I see that will prevent the ACC from ever really becoming better than a #4 or #5 conference is the makeup. Go back to my flagship post. Those schools all bring the size and clout and infrastructure that is not available to schools in the ACC. Pitt does not get the money Penn State does, FSU is not treated equally to Florida. Only a couple of schools in the ACC have the ability to compete budget wise with the SEC and BIG. With the overlap in the SEC and even the BIG chasing many of the same recruits, the flashier, big money schools will win out more than not. This is an achillies heel to the ACC superiority talk (IMO) which I do not feel anyone really addresses.

Good takes sir. Great discussion.

 

[TheContractor]

Nakona, I do respect your opinion, and agree that the BIG has its shortcomings and unless Oklahoma would move too, it may not be the best fit. The only thing about viewing the ACC on potential is that it has a history of coming no where near that potential. This is why we need to view it through the lens of today and yesterday.

Remember in 2003 when Miami and VA tech joined the ACC? It was going ot be the most dominant conference yet. No one would come close to a conference with Miami, Va Tech, FSU and Clemson. At that time Maryland was coming off a 10 win season and was a team on the verge. We are still waiting for this potential to be proven true. Will it happen? - I cant answer that question and neither can you. You can point to demographics and recruiting territories and such, but there are a lot of inherent ACC issues that would prevent them from overcoming these hurdles even if everything falls right.

The big thing I see that will prevent the ACC from ever really becoming better than a #4 or #5 conference is the makeup. Go back to my flagship post. Those schools all bring the size and clout and infrastructure that is not available to schools in the ACC. Pitt does not get the money Penn State does, FSU is not treated equally to Florida. Only a couple of schools in the ACC have the ability to compete budget wise with the SEC and BIG. With the overlap in the SEC and even the BIG chasing many of the same recruits, the flashier, big money schools will win out more than not. This is an achillies heel to the ACC superiority talk (IMO) which I do not feel anyone really addresses.

Very good discussion and valid points on both sides. Thats what will make it very interesting in the future. Every conference has positives and negatives. I for 1, believe that every conference has some bottom feeders and we need that but just a few.

I agree Acc doesnt have many flag ship schools but it does have a lot of AAU members but less than Big10.

Look at the Big12 when it was its best.

TX:Texas

OK:Ou

Kansas: Ku

NE:Nebraska

Iowa: none

CO:Colorado

Missouri:Mizzou

so the schools in the big 12 that were not flagship schools:Kst, Iowa St, Bu, TT, Ok St, Texas A&M

So half of the teams were not "flagship" schools. That did bother Texas before.

 

[joebobb]

True but the big difference is that the non-flagship schools in the BIG XII were in states where there was a flagship school.

TX - TX then A&M, Baylor, Tech

KS - KU then Kstate

OK - OU then Ok State

Not that Iowa football has been anything to write home about but I think there is something to say that their program has been historically stronger than Iowa State.

The thing with the ACC is that that the flagship school is in a different conference and they will always get more attention than the other schools in the same state. For example, UVA will always get more attention, $$$, have more influence on all issues than Va Tech, even if VA Tech is better on the field. Because they are both in the ACC VA Tech is protected here, however, most of the schools in the ACC will not have that privilege. PSU will always trump Pitt, UGA will trump GA, etc.

If I were Texas I would want to align myself with a conference that comes starts with a position of power.

 

[doc longhorn]

I dont always find Bohls accurate, don't care for his slant either. Anything he says I like to see elsewhere first.

I agree. My impression is that Bohls pretty much dances to the Bellmont tunes.

 

[doc longhorn]

Since I am new to this board and the ACC has been brought up, how do the people of this blog feel about the discussions of a possible alliance with the ACC - including an inter-conference game like we have coming up withe SEC?

 

[TheContractor]

Good point about flagship schools being in the states big 12 has already, joebobb.

I like the idea of an alliance but depending on how it is structured. If its just 1 game/yr or more.

Doc, I am torn mostly btw the Acc, Pac and trying to strength the Big12. IMO, ever conference has some good schools and everyone has some bottom dwellers. Each conference has some positives and negatives, even conferences I would prefer to not join, Big10. Depending on if there is a 4or5 team pod I could be convince of joining the sec but you can't just have 50% of the top historical programs in the same place. I am also not a fan on Independence, though there might be a chance we make to most $ there.

ACC:

gets us in a region that will have the most population growth and is great for recruiting. I think it would allow us to bring some friends with us so we arnt left on an island. Some good academic schools. Similar sports.

Great matchups: Fsu, The U, Clemson, VT. We can schedule ND ourselves and I don't consider ND a full member.

PAC:

gets us the west coast and similar mentality. Would love to be aligned academically with Stanford, cal, Ucla. Would also be able to bring friends so we arnt on an island. Cali & Zona are great for recruiting but they arnt the southeast.

Great matchups: USC, Ucla, Stanford, Oregon

Big 10:

has great academics with the CIC. To me this is an athletic merger so I don't know how it builds soo much academic ties. It's far, we can't bring friends and will be on an island. Population is generally shifting south or west.

Great matchups: Michigan, tOsu, Penn St, Wisconsin

Sec:

Generally football crazy schools in a great recruiting region(same as Acc but as joebobb pointed to, sec has the flagship schools). Also, the most corrupt conf by far, inverse relationship with academics. Unless NCAA gets strict or there is a break from NCAA I don't see this happening.

Great matchups: LSU, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Bama, maybe Arkansas and A&M get a Super Bowl game when they play us.

Independent:

Someone will take our other sports. Probably more $ but is it worth it?

Great matchups: Anyone we want. Annual games with ND, Ou, TT, Bu and Aggie(one day). A few softies like rice or Tulane. I'm sure Byu would be a regular and a different service academy every yr. We can schedule a few academic alliances(Stanford, NW, Duke).

Big12:

We run this ship and everyone knows this. That's fine but as a leader we have to do what is best for everyone and we did not(Deloss did not). I really liked the original big12 but the problem was the south was more powerful and we needed even distribution. Maybe add Cincy & UCF for a few years and see how it goes. We will be viewed as a relative weak conf unless something changes. But if we schedule a bit better like we plan to our SOS will be fine.

What would y'all add/subtract to this?

 

[irishfred]

You guys need to get a boost by scheduling Notre Dame for no other reason but to get on a real network on Thanksgiving Day.

Fox Sports 1?

For a "flagship" school like UT?

On Thanksgiving Night - Primetime?

NDNation would never let that happen, guys. We'll get you on a real network and get you some coast to coast exposure.

 

[TheContractor]

You guys need to get a boost by scheduling Notre Dame for no other reason but to get on a real network on Thanksgiving Day.
Fox Sports 1?

For a "flagship" school like UT?

On Thanksgiving Night - Primetime?

NDNation would never let that happen, guys. We'll get you on a real network and get you some coast to coast exposure.

I hate FOX Sports 1!! DAMIT!!!

 

[bbdude]

I hate NBC

 

[Bandit]

I hate arrogant Irish trolls.

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

I hate NBC

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