Should the big 12 add UCF?

[sdhornesq]

Bottomline is Dodds screwed the pooch on this deal. TCU was a stupid add because OU/UT/TT already controlled the D/FW TV market. They brought us jack.
We should have brought in Louisville and expanded our reach into the southeast. We should have got FSU, Miami, Clemson, or Georgia Tech when we had the chance.

Yep.

And since the ship has sailed, Texas should bail the Big XII for the SEC, PAC 12, or BIG.

 

[echeese]

Bottomline is Dodds screwed the pooch on this deal. TCU was a stupid add because OU/UT/TT already controlled the D/FW TV market. They brought us jack.
We should have brought in Louisville and expanded our reach into the southeast. We should have got FSU, Miami, Clemson, or Georgia Tech when we had the chance.

Yep. .

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Let me start by noting that I tried to warn you that UCF was for real and would be major trouble for Baylor. O'Leary is a excellent coach who gets the most from his players. He also prepares well for his foes.

From there, I encourage you to calm down. The Big 12 is not in trouble. There is only one way the Big 12 is going to be in real trouble, and that is if Texas decides to leave. And if Texas decides to leave the Big 12, Texas will not be hurt.

Unless it casts its lot among the Big Ten, which will drag it down with boredom.

I don't see adding any schools the Big 12 can get (BYU, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Boise St, Memphis) as helping the current 10 members. There is not enough money in any of them. So I don't see the Big 12 adding any school.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Yep. .

I don't think you ever had any such chance. Notre Dame began talking to the ACC many years ago. And probably since BC became the ACC's 12th, the ND leadership up to Father Jenkins knew that when push came to shove with conference realignment, ND would take the ACC.

And with ND coming aboard the ACC even as a half member in football, there is no way any of those schools would leave the ACC.

 

[abcee]

Do not add South Florida. They dont even have an on campus stadium, still leasing Raymond James out. They also lack in some facilities.
And, you dont add two teams in the same market. UCF has a stadium and all the attributes listed above. Grab them and Cincinnati to get about another 750K sets, fully expand our recruiting footprint in the southeast, and give WVU a couple travel partners.

Cincy is a good idea. Good trip partner for WVU in basketball, too.

 

[joebobb]

UCF is no Boise, UCF is the real deal and a diamond in the rough. Much more potential than USF, better facilities, bigger school, more traditional campus. USF has gone as high as it can go. UCF is going to be like Miami was in the 80's in a few years. They will be the reason why the "U" never gets back to its past glory because, UCF will be able to recruit some of the studs that would fall to Miami to UCF because of better facilities, still in the state of Florida and in a city environment. (Yes, I know much of the same could apply to USF too) but UCF is set up much better to capitalize on this than USF)

Boise did not have the demographics to sustain the success and after Petersen leaving, they will fall off the national radar in the next few years. UCF has much better talent available near them and a larger media market.

Grab UCF and Cincy to get to 12. Both of these schools have high ceilings, UCF higher than Cincy. Short term it will seem like a yawner. In 5-7 years it will be considered a steal.

 

[irishfred]

I don't think you ever had any such chance. Notre Dame began talking to the ACC many years ago. And probably since BC became the ACC's 12th, the ND leadership up to Father Jenkins knew that when push came to shove with conference realignment, ND would take the ACC.
And with ND coming aboard the ACC even as a half member in football, there is no way any of those schools would leave the ACC.

Great point. Notre Dame brings more $$$ and stability to the ACC than any other school could in the nation.

That also includes Texas.

The addition of Notre Dame to the ACC is the crown jewel for the conference. Even without ND's inclusion to a conference championship - as all ND is concerned about is being able to get into the Playoffs. Win all of the games, and get into the playoffs. Why is that not UT's focus as well?

UT is in a weak conference - that's not a problem - that's an opportunity!

Just get a great coach, WIN all of your games, and get into the playoffs... Why is this not the goal? Why the focus on the Big 12 and the conference?

Nobody cares or remembers who won the conference championship in 19xx or 20xx. You have a clear path to a NC without the inclusion of UCF or The University of Phoenix or whatever other school - and without a meaningless conference championship.

You're UT. If you are undefeated, you are in the NC game. What is the problem with this?

 

[Old Tascosa]

I understand the arguments for UCF & Cincy, but I better understand the arguments against them. Until the playoffs or D4 require a CCG, the B12 is way better off waiting for the financial pressures of the next 8-10 years to catch up with the ACC. If realignment happens, it will be as the GORs are expiring, with the B1G taking 2 from the ACC, then the SEC taking 2, and finally the B12 taking 6. The ACC's financial structure is considerably weaker than the B12's, which will eventually be weaker than the B1G's and the SEC's. ND's participation only delayed the eventual result, not eliminated it. Look at the conference TV payout projections. The absorption/merger with some of the ACC will cure that. (that is why FSU can't compete with Texas if we decide we want Fisher) ND will probably still be affiliated with the eastern half of the B12/ACC at that time.

But I still think that eventually the exclusive criteria for gaining membership in the D4. when it happens, will eliminate the need for realignment. Every one of the power 5 conferences have their weak sisters, and the criteria will be set such that those teams won't be admitted. Regional leagues will be formed across conference affiliations, with league championship games replacing CCGs. Conference affiliations, TV contracts, & GORs can remain intact. They won't matter and can be dealt with over time as the conferences see fit. Basketball and the spring sports will remain as they are, at least for now.

Until D4 or realignment happen, the best thing the B12 can do is to schedule great OCC games to vastly improve the SOS of the conference and improve its perception.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

-50k students with a massive alumni base.-Expanding their stadium.

-Based in Orlando.

-Opens Florida up for recruiting.

-Great trips for the teams.

-Massive television base in Florida.

-Actually a respectable school in Florida for academics.

-SHOWED TONIGHT THEY CAN HANG WITH THE BIG BOYS!

Why not? They would pounce on the offer in a heart beat.

Yes, but only under two conditions:

1. ESPN and FOX give Big 12 a pro rata increase for adding two teams (UCF and Cincinnati for me) so it doesn't adversely effect our TV revenues and bottom lines.

2. If it becomes clear that not having a Big 12 Conference Championship is hurting our chances of securing a CFB Playoff spot

Otherwise, don't bother expanding right now. No benefit or incentive for doing it.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Bottomline is Dodds screwed the pooch on this deal. TCU was a stupid add because OU/UT/TT already controlled the D/FW TV market. They brought us jack.
We should have brought in Louisville and expanded our reach into the southeast. We should have got FSU, Miami, Clemson, or Georgia Tech when we had the chance.

Agree. Adding TCU looked like a lose A&M, add another TX school decision. They are proving to be a liability and really don't deliver the DFW market.

 

[irishfred]

Agree. Adding TCU looked like a lose A&M, add another TX school decision. They are proving to be a liability and really don't deliver the DFW market.

The UT vs TCU game in 2012 was 1/2 empty at DKR.

It was a Thanksgiving game.

TCU is 2.5 hours away.

It was embarrassing to see -and this is what they are:

http://www.tcu360.com/football/2013/10/18743.patterson-fans-%E2%80%9Cwe-all-have-do-our-part%E2%80%9D

I'm sure the addition of UCF would mean that HEB would be giving away 2 tickets to UCF/UT with the purchase of a Rotisserie Chicken...

 

[ridik01]

UCF is no Boise, UCF is the real deal and a diamond in the rough. Much more potential than USF, better facilities, bigger school, more traditional campus. USF has gone as high as it can go. UCF is going to be like Miami was in the 80's in a few years. They will be the reason why the "U" never gets back to its past glory because, UCF will be able to recruit some of the studs that would fall to Miami to UCF because of better facilities, still in the state of Florida and in a city environment. (Yes, I know much of the same could apply to USF too) but UCF is set up much better to capitalize on this than USF)
Boise did not have the demographics to sustain the success and after Petersen leaving, they will fall off the national radar in the next few years. UCF has much better talent available near them and a larger media market.

Grab UCF and Cincy to get to 12. Both of these schools have high ceilings, UCF higher than Cincy. Short term it will seem like a yawner. In 5-7 years it will be considered a steal.

Totally agree!

 

[ridik01]

The UT vs TCU game in 2012 was 1/2 empty at DKR.
It was a Thanksgiving game.

TCU is 2.5 hours away.

It was embarrassing to see -and this is what they are:

http://www.tcu360.com/football/2013/10/18743.patterson-fans-%E2%80%9Cwe-all-have-do-our-part%E2%80%9D

I'm sure the addition of UCF would mean that HEB would be giving away 2 tickets to UCF/UT with the purchase of a Rotisserie Chicken...

The addition of UCF would set up a perfect future raid of the ACC. The ACC is not going to last, they barely missed complete death. The ACC is gearing for a BBall first conference signing their own death warrants.

 

[Topstarr]

Patterson has already said UCF & Cinnc right after he signed up.........=12 = CCG = 4 playoff

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

The UT vs TCU game in 2012 was 1/2 empty at DKR.
It was a Thanksgiving game.

TCU is 2.5 hours away.

That's incorrect. Announced attendance was 95k for the TCU game and UT still averaged over 100k in 2012.

Don't exaggerate

 

[ridik01]

IMHO, realignment / expansion is imperative. I understand the arguments against UCF, USF, Cincy,etc but it's all about TV sets and money. While UT is flush with money, what about Baylor or TCU or WVa. At ten members the Big 12 is vulnerable! Hell every couple of months or so up here in Ohio, there is an article in one of the papers speculating about UT to the BIG 10. It made no sense to me, or to my OSU friends to add Rutgers and MD to the BIG10 until we heard the BTN payout to EACH school was going to go from 17 mil to 28 mil per year. Expand or eventually be cherry picked apart by the more progressive and aggressive conferences.

Could you imagine our guys traveling 1000 miles for each game and playing in temperatures of -10 to 20 degrees during the last portion of the season.....I couldn't! That just spells trouble for us!

The Big 10 is the death for us IMO.

 

[irishfred]

That's incorrect. Announced attendance was 95k for the TCU game and UT still averaged over 100k in 2012.
Don't exaggerate

The actual attendance was NO WAY near 95k - at least that is what it looked like. It looked pathetic - the fans around me noticed as well.

I'll dig up a photo - it was so marked that I snapped one in the middle of the 2nd quarter. It looked like swiss cheese in the stadium.

It's no matter. We stayed until the end.

I'll concede that it was not 1/2 full. I embellished that. But it was not 95K either.

 

[Lord Vader]

1. What exactly is your point Fred?

2. TCU having "BCS" experience is 101% irrelevant. Its all about how many TV sets you deliver in a broadcast deal. TCU brings nothing to table from that perspective.

UCF and Cincinnati

The Orlando TV Market brings 1.5 million TV sets

The Cincy TV Market brings 915,000 TV sets.

For Arguments sake, the Louisville market is 668,000 TV sets.

By comparison, when we added TCU and WVU

The D/FW TV Market - Net gain of zero, since this was already Big 12 saturated and factored in

The Charleston/Huntington TV Market - 480,000

So, in summary, thanks to DeLoss Dodds

We left 180,000 to almost 800,000 TV sets off the table when contract talks came.

Now, because of "tradition"

We would scoff at the addition of 2.5 million more TV sets?

That is "DeLoss Dodds" logic, and its junk.

 

[johnabeard]

Ill make it simple for everyone, Ut will go to the pac 12. Few years ago there was a chance it could happen but dodds wasn't on board, now dodds is out. Bring in Patterson and what school did Patterson come from Arizona st and the pac 12.

Ive said this before there will be 4 16 team conferences soon and that's where I bet texas goes.

 

[Lord Vader]

Ill make it simple for everyone, Ut will go to the pac 12. Few years ago there was a chance it could happen but dodds wasn't on board, now dodds is out. Bring in Patterson and what school did Patterson come from Arizona st and the pac 12.
Ive said this before there will be 4 16 team conferences soon and that's where I bet texas goes.

No, this was a done deal until the Aggies torpedoed it and everyone backed off under the guise of trusting A&M, which was a horrible mistake. A&M then bolted for the SEC, and we replaced them and Missouri, who finally spread its legs far enough for someone to hit it, with WVU and TCU, which flips this argument back to post #37 I just made.

Now with the LHN and the Pac's demand of relinquishing 3rd tier rights, that ship has sailed. In the current landscape, youd see Texas either go into the ACC or independent at this point. We are not going to piss away all that ESPN money just to be in bed with the Pac-12.