Rationale for Big 12 Expansion?

[J.B. TexasEx]

Here's four quick points proffered by WVU backer, @MHver3. Makes sense, but I would like to get takes from the HornSports bloggers. I still *smh* not adding Louisville as #11 when we had the chance. Arguably a better "get" than both TCU and WVU, in my opinion.

1. Footprint. While the Big12 is currently in 2nd or 3rd-depending on if you are counting their Tier3 television money-in the pecking order of big money conferences they also have the smallest footprint of the top 8 earning conferences. Adding states like Florida and Ohio instantly propel them up the list and grows their market presence tremendously. Not to mention the issue with WVU being on that island…

2. Fox needs more Big12 inventory. With the proliferation of sports-dedicated tv networks (including FoxSports1) and only so much content available, Fox is in desperate need of games they can put the B12 name on. The brand will elevate the teams. The ratings will increase accordingly(as history has shown). Fox also will pay a pro-rata increase to add 2 teams. Espn will as well. Neither network is interested in re-opening their contracts with the B12 so those provisions were put in.

3. The Big12 needs more votes. With the upcoming Play-offs, the Big12 is at a disadvantage in polls. They have the smallest footprint and the fewest members. This gives them a disadvantage in the criteria(polls) that will be used to determine the 4 teams in the play-off.

4. The Big12 Championship Game is needed. Contrary to what you may have heard, the Championship Game is going to play a role in play-off selection. At the very least another conferences championship game winner could leap-frog an idle Big12 school(or one playing a bad opponent to end the season). And there is big money to be shared in the creation of said game as well. I’ve heard rumors that the B12 championship game could net anywhere from $30-$40 million per year in todays market.

Trick or Treat: 4 Reasons Why the Big 12 Will Expand | SPORTS MANCAVE

 

[Irish in SEC country]

Here's four quick points proffered by WVU backer, @MHver3. Makes sense, but would like to get takes from the HornSports bloggers. I still smh not adding Louisville as #11 when we had the chance.
Trick or Treat: 4 Reasons Why the Big 12 Will Expand | SPORTS MANCAVE

Like most WVU fan bloggers, MHVer3 ha a long history of hating ND. That is not part of this post, but an Irish fan always needs to keep such things in mind.

To expand without adding a pair of schools that truly prop up the Big 12 is going to be self-defeating long term. I don't think any available schools add enough to the Big 12 to make expansion worth the while. In fact, the Big 12 adding schools like UCF and USF (to get into FL as MHVer3 would favor) might just prod Texas into leaving.

 

[streettopeschel]

ok, but who? mentions fla and ohio. so cincy and one of the florida directional schools? how much does that really help other than getting us to 12?

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Like most WVU fan bloggers, MHVer3 ha a long history of hating ND. That is not part of this post, but an Irish fan always needs to keep such things in mind.
To expand without adding a pair of schools that truly prop up the Big 12 is going to be self-defeating long term. I don't think any available schools add enough to the Big 12 to make expansion worth the while. In fact, the Big 12 adding schools like UCF and USF (to get into FL as MHVer3 would favor) might just prod Texas into leaving.

Not necessarily. If adding, say, Cincinnati and UCF didn't reduce TV pay-outs and actually increased them with addition of a CCG I don't see UT having a problem with it. Furthermore, UT probably wouldn't have to play either newbie every year because both would probably be in an Eastern Division with WVU, Iowa State, KState, and KU.

Of course, that proposal will lead to more in-fighting because I doubt anybody wants to lose marquee games with UT and OU. IMHO, one of the BIGGEST mistakes made by the Big12 was not preserving the OU-Nebraska rivalry. That was a no-brainer to me.

It will be very interesting to see how all this shakes out, moving forward.

 

[Hoekem]

There are no sexy schools left, Dodds screwed the pooch on this among other things. ND was the big carrot and Dodds tripped over his own feet trying to align w/ them and fell flat on his face.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

There are no sexy schools left, Dodds screwed the pooch on this among other things. ND was the big carrot and Dodds tripped over his own feet trying to align w/ them and fell flat on his face.

No argument, but if both FOX and ESPN say UCF and Cincy are "sexy" enough we should listen. Their hype machines can help prop both programs up significantly. The Bearcats have played in a couple BcS bowls and UCF is a real "sleeping giant" in FL as its largest public university.

Hey, Florida State wasn't sexy back in the 70's either. Bowden built that program playing anybody, anytime, anywhere.

 

[Randolph Duke]

"Why" isn't the question. "Who" is the question.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

"Why" isn't the question. "Who" is the question.

I've offered up a couple of "whos", Cincinnati and UCF, to help build up an Eastern Division. BYU is easily the most desirable expansion candidate, but they come with the "no Sunday play" problem. Who do we pair with them out West? Boise State? Colorado State? UNLV?

 

[TheContractor]

not denying need for expansion but the quality of teams.

Dodds could have had a couple of much better options. Louisville, for 1, would have been the lowest on the totem pole and are better than UCF and Cincy. If things worked out Fsu, Clemson and Miami would have come over and that would have secured the Big12 as one of the top 2 conferences for the future. Also, with that was the possibility that ND would have become a partial member/member bc they would not have gone to the Acc(maybe ACC doesnt exist then) and they didnt want to go to Big10.

You are right the Big12 need to expand but not without quality teams. If UCF and Cincy go to east with Ku, Ksu, Isu, WV the again we have the best teams in the conference on the west side, maybe all 6 are better then the 6 on the east. Yes i know this can and will change but the west will always remain clearly 10x superior and a bad CCG(though it will make good $).

Deloss Dodds and his selfish love for ND, is the sole person to blame for the eventual end of the Big 12 and Texas having to leave to go Ind or another conference. Add UCF and Cincy but that still make the Big 12 the worst of the big 5 conferences, by far and also tied for least in numbers(12). I think we will expand but once GOR expires, the BIG 12 conference is no more. Thanks Deloss for helping create and kill the Big12.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

not denying need for expansion but the quality of teams. Dodds could have had a couple of much better options. Louisville, for 1, would have been the lowest on the totem pole and are better than UCF and Cincy. If things worked out Fsu, Clemson and Miami would have come over and that would have secured the Big12 as one of the top 2 conferences for the future. Also, with that was the possibility that ND would have become a partial member/member bc they would not have gone to the Acc(maybe ACC doesnt exist then) and they didnt want to go to Big10.

You are right the Big12 need to expand but not without quality teams. If UCF and Cincy go to east with Ku, Ksu, Isu, WV the again we have the best teams in the conference on the west side, maybe all 6 are better then the 6 on the east. Yes i know this can and will change but the west will always remain clearly 10x superior and a bad CCG(though it will make good $).

Deloss Dodds and his selfish love for ND, is the sole person to blame for the eventual end of the Big 12 and Texas having to leave to go Ind or another conference. Add UCF and Cincy but that still make the Big 12 the worst of the big 5 conferences, by far and also tied for least in numbers(12). I think we will expand but once GOR expires, the BIG 12 conference is no more. Thanks Deloss for helping create and kill the Big12.

I hear you, DeLoss' man-crush on ND was a big problem. You can also blame Castiglione and ESPN in particular for preserving the ACC. It was in ESPN's best interests to salvage that league because they own ALL of their broadcast rights; Tier 1, 2 and 3. They didn't want to get in a bidding war with FOX.

UT going Indy after 2025 is a real possibility, but who knows how the CFB landscape will change by then? Maybe conference affiliations go away completely and all of the major programs have their own networks, similar to LHN.

 

[TheContractor]

Both good points JB.

One thing is certain, NCAA needs to go.

 

[Nakona Horn]

Adding two schools like UCF and Cincy would be the worst thing the B12 conference could possibly do. If you want to get into that geographic footprint, just schedule teams in that region. Avoid splitting up into unequal divisions, a conference game, and dealing with two additional seats at the table.

This conference has enough low tier schools with zero football tradition and prestige. It doesn't need to be watered down any further to "get into new markets" or appease Fox.

I really think a scheduling alliance, done correctly, with the ACC would make a lot of sense. The teams in this conference can play a mix of FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, Vtech, Lville, Gtech, NCState, and Notre Dame. In fact, WVU is adding Vtech and Pitt to their non-conference schedule.

This conference needs more compelling match ups and ensure each team has a very competitive strength of schedule. Baylor's schedule, for example, would look a lot sexier if they had two ACC teams instead of Wofford and Buffalo.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Adding two schools like UCF and Cincy would be the worst thing the B12 conference could possibly do. If you want to get into that geographic footprint, just schedule teams in that region. Avoid splitting up into unequal divisions, a conference game, and dealing with two additional seats at the table.
This conference has enough low tier schools with zero football tradition and prestige. It doesn't need to be watered down any further to "get into new markets" or appease Fox.

I really think a scheduling alliance, done correctly, with the ACC would make a lot of sense. The teams in this conference can play a mix of FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, Vtech, Lville, Gtech, NCState, and Notre Dame. In fact, WVU is adding Vtech and Pitt to their non-conference schedule.

This conference needs more compelling match ups and ensure each team has a very competitive strength of schedule. Baylor's schedule, for example, would look a lot sexier if they had two ACC teams instead of Wofford and Buffalo.

I like your idea for a scheduling alliance with the ACC, but your "zero football tradition and prestige" argument would carry more weight if the SEC didn't just add Aggy & Mizzery. And the B1G just added Maryland and Rutgers.

 

[Hoekem]

No argument, but if both FOX and ESPN say UCF and Cincy are "sexy" enough we should listen. Their hype machines can help prop both programs up significantly. The Bearcats have played in a couple BcS bowls and UCF is a real "sleeping giant" in FL as its largest public university.
Hey, Florida State wasn't sexy back in the 70's either. Bowden built that program playing anybody, anytime, anywhere.

I can agree w/ that. The U wasn't popular until they beat NU either. Maybe that's why I'm not in that business because I don't really envision anyone in the East except for the 2 you mentioned...maybe N Illinois.

In the West I would have to go w/ CSU.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I can agree w/ that. The U wasn't popular until they beat NU either. Maybe that's why I'm not in that business because I don't really envision anyone in the East except for the 2 you mentioned...maybe N Illinois.
In the West I would have to go w/ CSU.

Exactly! What makes a program "sexy"? Winning BIG games. Neither FSU nor Miami were sexy until they started kicking some blue-bloods' asses. Cincy has already proven they can do it. Don't sleep on UCF either. There's a reason the Big 3 in FL won't schedule them. All it takes to raise their profile is a win over UT or OU. We're scheduled to play 'em in 2017 non-conference.

Funny, I forgot about Northern Illinois. Could be an entry into the Chicago and B1G footprint. Worth a look.

 

[Lord Vader]

Cincinnati is not an option. Thats like going to the dance hall, turning down all but the most marginally attractive women, and then humping your cousin.

Central Florida is new TV sets and a footprint in SEC/ACC country. Have to give the West Virginians a travel partner since they clearly didnt think this whole "distance" thing through....

Dodds screwed us all by not bringing in Louisville.

 

[TheContractor]

UCF is best possibility available but still not that attractive.

Have to add a second school. Who? Cincy? USF? Assuming big 12 adds 2 schools.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

UCF is best possibility available but still not that attractive. Have to add a second school. Who? Cincy? USF? Assuming big 12 adds 2 schools.

USF/UCF is basically the same TV market, Tampa/St.Pete/Orlando

 

[TheContractor]

Definitely same market