Marqez Bimage

[drgilbert]

Here is an instance where black people were the racist and also the oppressor to another tribe

Ethnic pygmy populations in Central Africasuffer from racialized discrimination from Bantu peoples.[1] Pygmies and Bantus differ physically and genetically due to long lasting evolutionary separation until the Bantu expansion brought them back into close contact.[2] Pygmies have been targeted for slavery by Bantu populations continuing into the modern age.[1] They are frequently ostracized from participation into the wider society in the various African countries that they live in and are seen as untouchables.[1] Racially-motivated attacks occur on Pygmies including rape and cannibalization.[3][4]

 

[DBut82]

I’m not forgetting anything. I copied and pasted the definition, argue with whoever wrote that definition, not me. The definition I used proves anyone no matter the color of their skin can be racist. I didn’t make that up, I just proved it with the actual definition 

Ok if that how you want to do it then let's play that game.  From Merriam-Webster:


1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race



2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism



3: racial prejudice or discrimination




What you did Dr. is only posted the part of the definition to fit your narrative.  When I posted my definition I included it ALL. Let's rock the ENTIRE definition. Peep #2a & 2b.  THIS is why black people or any other minorities cannot be racist.  WE have no "doctrines or political programs based on the assumptions of racism and designed to execute its principles" (i.e. oppression) OR "a political or social system founded on racism".  So, according to the FULL DEFINITION which you posted sir black people cannot be racist...

 

[drgilbert]

The definition has multiple layers. One layer doesn’t outweigh the others. Just like steak is part of the cow so is the roast. All the same animal but different.  One is the definition and one is a doctrine or political program. It has multiple meanings. If you don’t like someone due to their ethnicity then you are a racist. 

 

[drgilbert]

Look same word two definitions



 
 
 
 





but·ter


/ˈbədər/


Learn to pronounce




 





noun

1. 
   
   
   
   
   a pale yellow edible fatty substance made by churning cream and used as a spread or in cooking.
   
   
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
    
   
   
   
   

verb

1. 
   
   
   
   
   spread (something) with butter.
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[DBut82]

Here is an instance where black people were the racist and also the oppressor to another tribe

Ethnic pygmy populations in Central Africasuffer from racialized discrimination from Bantu peoples.[1] Pygmies and Bantus differ physically and genetically due to long lasting evolutionary separation until the Bantu expansion brought them back into close contact.[2] Pygmies have been targeted for slavery by Bantu populations continuing into the modern age.[1] They are frequently ostracized from participation into the wider society in the various African countries that they live in and are seen as untouchables.[1] Racially-motivated attacks occur on Pygmies including rape and cannibalization.[3][4]

Thank you but what does this have to do with black people and racism in America?

 

[drgilbert]

You said black people could not be racist and the article talks about black people being racially desriminative. That’s why I posted it. 

 

[drgilbert]

Another definition of racist 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racist

 

[drgilbert]

It’s also an adjective  
 

adjective

1. 
   
   
   
   
   showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[DBut82]

It’s also an adjective  
 

adjective

1. 
   
   
   
   
   showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
   
   
   
   
   
   

Dr. Gilbert, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  You believe black people can be racist.  I don't.  And we'll leave it at that

 

[Captain Hookem]

I understand the angst Capt. SHA asked about the connection and I provided the link.  The problem tho is that this country was built on the backs of slaves.  And just about everything we take for granted today came from that foundation and we have been unifying around those symbols.  And from these discussions we've been having we've been doing so without knowledge of it.  That how ingrained racism is in this country....

Yes, I agree. Everyone is being asked to evaluate their preconceived notions about everything. This is a good, healthy exercise. 

If I have any angst it's that I don't know what the rules are. There are no boundaries for discussion. If anything is deemed historically as 'slave-worthy' then it immediately gets put into the 'must purge' category. Even just asking questions can get you labelled.

I feel as if there are some things that don't belong in that category. But... am I allowed to have feelings? If not, then we aren't really having a conversation.

Is it possible that some things the black community has tied to racism aren't actually exclusive to the African slave experience in North America? If not then maybe we put those in another category that's labeled, 'Uncomfortable things in the past that everyone kind of experienced.'

Btw, @DBut82 this isn't directed at you all, but a much more theoretical question overall. Having read your posts for a while you seem like the kind of guy that would respectfully discuss anything with anyone. 

But as it stands it feels like everyone in the country is on a gigantic football field. A football magically appears in someone's hands then a voice from nowhere bellows out, 'PLAY'!... I don't know how we ever get to a consensus in those conditions.  

 

[drgilbert]

Dr. Gilbert, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  You believe black people can be racist.  I don't.  And we'll leave it at that

Ok

 

[DBut82]

Yes, I agree. Everyone is being asked to evaluate their preconceived notions about everything. This is a good, healthy exercise. 

If I have any angst it's that I don't know what the rules are. There are no boundaries for discussion. If anything is deemed historically as 'slave-worthy' then it immediately gets put into the 'must purge' category. Even just asking questions can get you labelled.

I feel as if there are some things that don't belong in that category. But... am I allowed to have feelings? If not, then we aren't really having a conversation.

Is it possible that some things the black community has tied to racism aren't actually exclusive to the African slave experience in North America? If not then maybe we put those in another category that's labeled, 'Uncomfortable things in the past that everyone kind of experienced.'

Btw, @DBut82 this isn't directed at you all, but a much more theoretical question overall. Having read your posts for a while you seem like the kind of guy that would respectfully discuss anything with anyone. 

But as it stands it feels like everyone in the country is on a gigantic football field. A football magically appears in someone's hands then a voice from nowhere bellows out, 'PLAY'!... I don't know how we ever get to a consensus in those conditions.  

I agree.  I actually enjoy having the discussions because I'm of the opinion that unless we can openly talk about and have the uncomfortable dialogue, then what are we actually doing?  You can tell from my profile pic that my life is extremely diverse. Although she looks Caucasian my wife is actually half Mexican (hr maiden name is Nolasco). Her father (my father in law) is an officer who's currently running for sheriff of Uvalde County.  I have 2 biracial kids from a previous marriage (white/black) my youngest daughter we joke and say she's triracial lol (1/2 black, 1/4 Mexican, 1/4 white).  I mention this to say that I don't want racism to be something that my children have to deal with especially to the extent I have.  And the only way we can eradicate it is to have these discussions and to work together to remove it from our society. It'll take generations to accomplish it imo but as long as we continue to call out racial injustice and each of us do our part not to continue the dialog and the push to end it, we'll get there.

 

[Captain Hookem]

I agree.  I actually enjoy having the discussions because I'm of the opinion that unless we can openly talk about and have the uncomfortable dialogue, then what are we actually doing?  You can tell from my profile pic that my life is extremely diverse. Although she looks Caucasian my wife is actually half Mexican (hr maiden name is Nolasco). Her father (my father in law) is an officer who's currently running for sheriff of Uvalde County.  I have 2 biracial kids from a previous marriage (white/black) my youngest daughter we joke and say she's triracial lol (1/2 black, 1/4 Mexican, 1/4 white).  I mention this to say that I don't want racism to be something that my children have to deal with especially to the extent I have.  And the only way we can eradicate it is to have these discussions and to work together to remove it from our society. It'll take generations to accomplish it imo but as long as we continue to call out racial injustice and each of us do our part not to continue the dialog and the push to end it, we'll get there.

Likewise... I'm pretty white but my wife is from Mexico. My daughters are technically half Hispanic (but it's not something they're really aware of outside of having to answer the question on forms). 

We live in an area that's at least half Asian or mixed race. Most of their friends are minorities or mixed. It's interesting to hear them talk... they can joke about it in a way that only people who truly trust each other can.

Either way... I've seen how it's possible to raise kids in an environment where color blindness is actually a thing. I know it's not possible everywhere due to demographics, but it does show it's possible to accomplish even in one generation with the right conditions.  

 

[DMAC]

Ok if that how you want to do it then let's play that game.  From Merriam-Webster:


1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race



2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism



3: racial prejudice or discrimination




What you did Dr. is only posted the part of the definition to fit your narrative.  When I posted my definition I included it ALL. Let's rock the ENTIRE definition. Peep #2a & 2b.  THIS is why black people or any other minorities cannot be racist.  WE have no "doctrines or political programs based on the assumptions of racism and designed to execute its principles" (i.e. oppression) OR "a political or social system founded on racism".  So, according to the FULL DEFINITION which you posted sir black people cannot be racist...

Thats interesting I always thought racism was judging or prejudging someone based on their race.  But I guess that is what 3 is.  So yes whites, blacks, asains, mexicans can all by racist against each other.  Are you saying that is not correct?

 

[DMAC]

Dr. Gilbert, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  You believe black people can be racist.  I don't.  And we'll leave it at that

View attachment 2596

View attachment 2597

So youre saying BLM wields no power?  Then why are they protesting if they have no power to change things.  I disagree if you think the black population wield no power. Some of latest polls show them as more popular than sports, government, etc.

That first block quote is pretty dire.  As if there is nothing that can be done.  Whites will be racist whether they want to or not because they consume it from the moment they are born.  That's pretty radical man sounds like zero hope then.  I cant agree with that

 

[DMAC]

“I hate white people. All of them. Every last iota of a cracker, I hate it. We didn’t come out here to play today. There’s too much serious business going on in the black community to be out here sliding through South Street with white, dirty, cracker whore bitches on our arms, and we call ourselves black men. … What the hell is wrong with you black man? You at a doomsday with a white girl on your damn arm. We keep begging white people for freedom! No wonder we not free! Your enemy cannot make you free, fool! You want freedom? You going to have to kill some crackers! You going to have to kill some of their babies!”

— King Samir Shabazz, former head of the party’s Philadelphia chapter, in a National Geographic documentary, January 2009.

So hes not racist?  Just an all around pleasant man.  If a white person said something similar about blacks that is racism?  Thats a double standard man

 

[DBut82]

Thats interesting I always thought racism was judging or prejudging someone based on their race.  But I guess that is what 3 is.  So yes whites, blacks, asains, mexicans can all by racist against each other.  Are you saying that is not correct?

That is not correct.  Minorities cannot be "racist".  Racism is more than just hating the color of another persons skin.  2 things are required to be racist: power and prejudice.  Minorities lack power...

 

[DBut82]

So youre saying BLM wields no power?  Then why are they protesting if they have no power to change things.  I disagree if you think the black population wield no power. Some of latest polls show them as more popular than sports, government, etc.

That first block quote is pretty dire.  As if there is nothing that can be done.  Whites will be racist whether they want to or not because they consume it from the moment they are born.  That's pretty radical man sounds like zero hope then.  I cant agree with that

BLM holds no true power. It's a movement that is bringing to the forefront social injustices of black people and other minorities in the hopes that once the people in power see the injustices, laws and practices will be changed.  BLM has no power to change the laws any more than you or I do...

Systematic racism is a part of our lives...

 

[DMAC]

That is not correct.  Minorities cannot be "racist".  Racism is more than just hating the color of another persons skin.  2 things are required to be racist: power and prejudice.  Minorities lack power...

So who exactly decided that is how it works?  So you can say I hate white people because they are white and thats not racist according to you because the black population holds no power and you are black?  But white people if they say those things then they are racist because we hold some mysterious power and they are white? 

I must have left mine at home because last time I checked all men are created equal in the eyes of God.

Sounds like a crock of shit to me.

No disrespect I have always enjoyed your posts over the years but whoever came up with that definition is full of shit.

 

[DBut82]

So hes not racist?  Just an all around pleasant man.  If a white person said something similar about blacks that is racism?  Thats a double standard man

He's hateful...but not racist.  Racism requires both prejudice (which he truly displays) and power.  He has no power