*****GAME THREAD: Texas Tech Red Raiders @ Texas Longhorns*****

[DMAC]

Yes, Collins SHOULD be better than MIms. But he's not. 

It seems to me you're suggesting that the problem here is the perception of the fan. Hottest hire and hottest coach – until he gets to Texas. Most talent between the coasts, but can't be coached at Texas. Even when we're given presents under the tree by Baylor (two OL who hardly ever played a down here). You have a point.

I guess you'll have to refresh my memory. I do not remember any Baylor transfers to Texas. You said we took some of their players.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Devin Duvernay got out of his LOI after the Rape U Briles incident to sign with Texas.  His brother then transferred later.

Here it is:

The recruiting journey of Devin Duvernay has come to a conclusion ... again.

Duvernay, the No. 42-ranked prospect in the Class of 2016, committed to Texas over TCU on Wednesday, ending one of the most bizarre recruitments after Baylor failed to submit his national letter of intent paperwork to the Big 12 offices.

"I'm going to Texas," Duvernay said. "I just feel like they are coming up, and feel good about Charlie Strong and his staff's plan and they are going to turn this thing around. I feel like coach Sterlin Gilbert is kind of the missing piece to help out the offense. I feel like he can add me in, and add some speed to the receiving core."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/recruiting/story/_/id/16420869/former-baylor-committ-devin-duvernay-chooses-texas-reopening-recruitment

 

[DMAC]

Fair enough, but everyone here has been critical of Herman. The only question has become whether or not some think he should not be given another year. When you join the online dogpile of Herman criticism it gives all the appearance of you wanting him gone as well. 

I criticize Herman, and rightfully so, but I dont think we should fire him....yet. 

I would give him 2 more years unless next year is a complete dumpster fire. 

BTW no I dont think making a bowl game is a dumpster fire but considering the preseason expectations, this year was shit and everyone knows it.  FFS we beat Georgia in last years sugar bowl game only to beat Kansas by 2 points.  Kansas State by 3 points.  Sorry but Kansas is 1-8 in conference and 3-9 overall.  They are no Baylor.  This team has played down to almost every opponent's level since the ou loss

The second half of this season wasnt good and he is the HC.  My allegiance is to the school not any HC.  Hermans arrogance probably has soemthing to do with it as well.  Im fine with him being a Mensa ass as long as this team is playing up to their potential and he didnt get it done.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Devin Duvernay got out of his LOI after the Rape U Briles incident to sign with Texas.  His brother then transferred later.

That is correct, however, Duvernay's LOI was never signed, which is why he joined the Texas class faster than the others.

Since the Devurney brothers are twins, one did not have to "transfer." CTH simply had to be willing to take him.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Then some times the truth hurts even when Myer speaks.

Myers was correct that Texas has not developed players as it relates to the draft. But he conveniently, and deliberately, left out the fact that none of the Herman recruits have even been eligible for the draft yet.

Meyer is simply using his platform to get back at Herman because Meyer got caught enabling a known domestic violence abuser and he blames Herman. It is obvious to anyone and everyone except those who don't want to see it. 

 

[Drb522]

Make no mistake about it. Urban Meyer is a sleazy, low-life, scummy, douchebag. 

He’d win at Texas

 

[Drb522]

Myers was correct that Texas has not developed players as it relates to the draft. But he conveniently, and deliberately, left out the fact that none of the Herman recruits have even been eligible for the draft yet.

Meyer is simply using his platform to get back at Herman because Meyer got caught enabling a known domestic violence abuser and he blames Herman. It is obvious to anyone and everyone except those who don't want to see it. 

He’s had 3 years with the kids he didn’t recruit and inherited.   There’s absolutely no way he can’t develop players that he didn’t recruit them simply because he didn’t recruit them?  

 

[dillohorn]

Meyer would recruit well and win at UT, but it would be at a heavy cost to the university. He would then escape to elsewhere after a short time.

 

[tejasrulz]

Meyer is simply using his platform to get back at Herman because Meyer got caught enabling a known domestic violence abuser and he blames Herman. It is obvious to anyone and everyone except those who don't want to see it. 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

He’d win at Texas

I don't disagree.

 

[83Dee]

Fair enough, but everyone here has been critical of Herman. The only question has become whether or not some think he should not be given another year. When you join the online dogpile of Herman criticism it gives all the appearance of you wanting him gone as well. 

My position is that he should be given another year.   But at the same time I have very little confidence that the ship will be righted.  

 

[83Dee]

He’d win at Texas

I don’t believe anyone doubts this.  

 

[North Texas Golfer]

He’s had 3 years with the kids he didn’t recruit and inherited.   There’s absolutely no way he can’t develop players that he didn’t recruit them simply because he didn’t recruit them?  

I don't see the evaluation shit show that Urban, and I guess you, think it is. Looks more like the 2014-2016 Charlie Strong recruiting were more the shitshow and were basically overrated. 

The 2014 recruiting class consisted of 22 players and was ranked 17th nationally and 2nd in the Big 12. Basically about 7-8 players out of 22 ended up making even a small a contribution and about that many didn't even end their careers at Texas. This class had 4-5 players tops who made significant contributions and 2 of those made it to the NFL.  

The 2015 class consisted of 27 players and was ranked 10th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Around 10-12 never made a contribution while at Texas and/left. Of the remaining players, at least 10 of them ended at least getting some kind of shot at the pro level.

The 2016 class consisted of 28 players and was ranked 7th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Almost half of those are no longer even on the team. Of the rest, one left last year (Lil'Jordan) and probably one will return next year. You can make a case that another 4-5 could get a shot at the pros. Plus Parker Braun.  

 

[Drb522]

I don't see the evaluation shit show that Urban, and I guess you, think it is. Looks more like the 2014-2016 Charlie Strong recruiting were more the shitshow and were basically overrated. 

The 2014 recruiting class consisted of 22 players and was ranked 17th nationally and 2nd in the Big 12. Basically about 7-8 players out of 22 ended up making even a small a contribution and about that many didn't even end their careers at Texas. This class had 4-5 players tops who made significant contributions and 2 of those made it to the NFL.  

The 2015 class consisted of 27 players and was ranked 10th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Around 10-12 never made a contribution while at Texas and/left. Of the remaining players, at least 10 of them ended at least getting some kind of shot at the pro level.

The 2016 class consisted of 28 players and was ranked 7th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Almost half of those are no longer even on the team. Of the rest, one left last year (Lil'Jordan) and probably one will return next year. You can make a case that another 4-5 could get a shot at the pros. Plus Parker Braun.  

Keep in mind my comment was about the urban statement about Texas not developing for the draft.  You stated Herman hasn’t had a kid he recruited eligible for the draft yet.  My comment was about the kids he inherited and didn’t develop.  Some of them have had three years in his program.  Is it impossible for Herman to develop kids he didn’t recruit?  Surely he could improve them a little bit if he can develop kids he did recruit. 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Keep in mind my comment was about the urban statement about Texas not developing for the draft.  You stated Herman hasn’t had a kid he recruited eligible for the draft yet.  My comment was about the kids he inherited and didn’t develop.  Some of them have had three years in his program.  Is it impossible for Herman to develop kids he didn’t recruit?  Surely he could improve them a little bit if he can develop kids he did recruit. 

My entire post was about kids that Herman inherited from Charlie's 3 recruiting classes which, despite the ranking, almost half of them either had no business even being on scholarship at Texas or were simply never good enough to really make any kind of contribution. Based on what he had to work with, it is my opinion that saying Herman didn't develop those kids is overblown and that he did improve them at least a little bit, if not more. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. 

 

[Drb522]

My entire post was about kids that Herman inherited from Charlie's 3 recruiting classes which, despite the ranking, almost half of them either had no business even being on scholarship at Texas or were simply never good enough to really make any kind of contribution. Based on what he had to work with, it is my opinion that saying Herman didn't develop those kids is overblown and that he did improve them at least a little bit, if not more. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. 

Can’t develop those that left, but he had the ones that stayed for three years.  Malcolm Roach hasn’t improved.  Brandon Jones has played himself out of being drafted probably.  John Burt still can’t catch a football.  Duvernay has been utilized very well.  Jeffrey McCullough stays hurt but hasn’t improved a ton in the last three years from what I’ve seen.  TaQuan Graham was a Charlie recruit right?  Shackleford is still about as good as when he was a sophomore.  Christmas-Giles and Wilbon were both Charlie recruits and they weren’t even utilized this year.  Both could’ve helped imo.  Collin can play but can’t stay healthy, his brother is made of glass.  

 

[NEOkHorn]

I would concede Jones who has been somewhat of an enigma but Roach is a better fit in a different scheme, Burt has been a part time football player while understandably focused on his track career, McCullough and CJ have struggled with injuries which likely impacted their overall performance. Are there concerns with how these kids have developed, absolutely but not all of it is coaching. In every program, there are kids that improve and some that do not. Without being in the practices for their entire careers, I could not say what the exact reason for these players has been, only speculate.

 

[Drb522]

I would concede Jones who has been somewhat of an enigma but Roach is a better fit in a different scheme, Burt has been a part time football player while understandably focused on his track career, McCullough and CJ have struggled with injuries which likely impacted their overall performance. Are there concerns with how these kids have developed, absolutely but not all of it is coaching. In every program, there are kids that improve and some that do not. Without being in the practices for their entire careers, I could not say what the exact reason for these players has been, only speculate.

So you’re agreeing that the Strong recruits that spent three seasons under Herman didn’t get much better if any in those three years.  CJ was a nice talent when he got to Texas.  Injuries seem to be a common theme under Herman.  Is it S&C?  Or something else?  To say them not developing  under Herman is overblown is silly.  

 

[dillohorn]

With all this firing/demoting going on it certainly looks like TH made a ton of bad hires when he got to UT. Let's hope he gets it right this time. There was no bigger TH supporter than me for over 2 years. I was also hoping and ready to see him fired the past several weeks. Now I'm glad he is being kept but he needs to get these hires done correctly and fast. Like I used to tell my employees who asked if I wanted a task done fast or right   I said both. 

 

[NEOkHorn]

Don't think I ever said it was overblown. What I said is that some did develop, some did not. Injuries affected development for some as well. Also pretty sure I said there are concerns but to make a blanket statement that every kid that did not develop as we think they should is Herman's fault is a silly statement. 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

So you’re agreeing that the Strong recruits that spent three seasons under Herman didn’t get much better if any in those three years.  CJ was a nice talent when he got to Texas.  Injuries seem to be a common theme under Herman.  Is it S&C?  Or something else?  To say them not developing  under Herman is overblown is silly.  

I think we're having an interesting discussion here. So what do you think are the realistic "development" expectations for any particular recruiting class?