**Running College Football Updates Thread**

[dssl]

I belive satellite to a set top box is a example of a secure commo. chanell. At least it gets goverment involved if you are caught. Descrambling is what it is tv or football. But doubt if China is interested in football hacklng not enough money.

I don't know the details of the sat box, but do know that secure communication channels can be created. Here is a bit of a primer, if you are really interested in the subject

Secure channel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[TXFF]

Totally different then a secure encrypted communication channel.

I was hoping this topic would die, but I'll try to clarify. I'm not referring to technology to intercept and decrypt the wireless communication channel. In the world of spycraft there exists technology to pick up audio from a person or a speaker at distances easily within the confines of a stadium. I'm not suggesting that any program would employ such technology which is probably only available to the likes of the CIA and other spy organizations.

Many years ago, similar technology was used by the KGB to eavesdrop on Oval Office conversations from the protection of the Russian Embassy. It's even easier to do with today's technologies.

 

[TFloss32]

 

[TFloss32]

 

[TFloss32]

 

[TFloss32]

 

[dssl]

I was hoping this topic would die, but I'll try to clarify. I'm not referring to technology to intercept and decrypt the wireless communication channel. In the world of spycraft there exists technology to pick up audio from a person or a speaker at distances easily within the confines of a stadium. I'm not suggesting that any program would employ such technology which is probably only available to the likes of the CIA and other spy organizations.

Many years ago, similar technology was used by the KGB to eavesdrop on Oval Office conversations from the protection of the Russian Embassy. It's even easier to do with today's technologies.

You say you want it to die, yet you persist. I too was hoping it would die, but apparently we are both stubborn, and think the other person is in some way wrong so it goes on, for at least one more post.

An office with a planted device, or a vibrating window pain with a strategically placed sensor is a completely different environment then a stadium with 100k people making lots of random noises where the thing you are trying to eaves drop on is moving around.

There is a concept called signal to noise ratio In communications (yes I took a class in this many many moons ago). The basic idea is that if there is way more noise then signal it becomes impossible to decipher the original signal. For communications systems this can be managed with certain types of redundancy, but when trying to pick up an audio signal no such redundancy exists.

What a parabolic reflector does is only picks up the sound from a specific line of sight, thus eliminating most of the noise from other directions. Without being able to isolate the sound it becomes impossible to isolate a single voice from 100k people talking and making noise in a stadium.

It's easy to hypothesize that a technology exists, or could exist that could achieve those objectives in real time no less. Fortunately no such technology is possible, otherwise it would exist and nobody would ever have any privacy anywhere.

And again if you don't think your magic eaves dropping technology would be used what is your point?

And again they already have the play caller the sends the play into a hopefully secure wireless device to the relay person, so how could it open up any additional exposure if that signal went directly to the player on the field, instead of the guy(s) relaying the calls to the players.

I sure hope this dies now, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

 

[TFloss32]

 

[Baron]

You say you want it to die, yet you persist. I too was hoping it would die, but apparently we are both stubborn, and think the other person is in some way wrong so it goes on, for at least one more post.

An office with a planted device, or a vibrating window pain with a strategically placed sensor is a completely different environment then a stadium with 100k people making lots of random noises where the thing you are trying to eaves drop on is moving around.

There is a concept called signal to noise ratio In communications (yes I took a class in this many many moons ago). The basic idea is that if there is way more noise then signal it becomes impossible to decipher the original signal. For communications systems this can be managed with certain types of redundancy, but when trying to pick up an audio signal no such redundancy exists.

What a parabolic reflector does is only picks up the sound from a specific line of sight, thus eliminating most of the noise from other directions. Without being able to isolate the sound it becomes impossible to isolate a single voice from 100k people talking and making noise in a stadium.

It's easy to hypothesize that a technology exists, or could exist that could achieve those objectives in real time no less. Fortunately no such technology is possible, otherwise it would exist and nobody would ever have any privacy anywhere.

And again if you don't think your magic eaves dropping technology would be used what is your point?

And again they already have the play caller the sends the play into a hopefully secure wireless device to the relay person, so how could it open up any additional exposure if that signal went directly to the player on the field, instead of the guy(s) relaying the calls to the players.

I sure hope this dies now, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

Every radio transmission can be intercepted. Whether you can translate it is another thing. The attempt by a team should be illegal, but teams should have a rotating code in place.

 

[dssl]

Every radio transmission can be intercepted. Whether you can translate it is another thing. The attempt by a team should be illegal, but teams should have a rotating code in place.

With strong encryption no rotating code is required. The idea is the voice is digitized and sent encrypted, so having access to the data is not useful, unless you have the decipher key.

Since they already transmit the plays wirelessly they presumably already know how to make it secure enough for their comfort.

 

[Baron]

With strong encryption no rotating code is required. The idea is the voice is digitized and sent encrypted, so having access to the data is not useful, unless you have the decipher key.

Since they already transmit the plays wirelessly they presumably already know how to make it secure enough for their comfort.

I was talking about code before encryption.

 

[Coot]

I remember when they used to run a messenger player out to the huddle every down.

The good thing about sending in plays with those signs from the sidelines is the whole team could get the play with no huddle required. Unless everybody has mics in their helmets, they may need to huddle more often. In the NFL do all players have mics in the helmets?

 

[dssl]

I remember when they used to run a messenger player out to the huddle every down.

The good thing about sending in plays with those signs from the sidelines is the whole team could get the play with no huddle required. Unless everybody has mics in their helmets, they may need to huddle more often. In the NFL do all players have mics in the helmets?

In the NFL only one player on the field for each team has a speaker in their helmet. It gets shut off before the play starts.

I am not sure why they don't allow all of the players to have speakers, it could speed up the game, which seems mostly good.

 

[Baron]

I remember when they used to run a messenger player out to the huddle every down.

The good thing about sending in plays with those signs from the sidelines is the whole team could get the play with no huddle required. Unless everybody has mics in their helmets, they may need to huddle more often. In the NFL do all players have mics in the helmets?

You are 100% right. Tom Landry and the Cowboys.

 

[TXFF]

You say you want it to die, yet you persist. I too was hoping it would die, but apparently we are both stubborn, and think the other person is in some way wrong so it goes on, for at least one more post.

An office with a planted device, or a vibrating window pain with a strategically placed sensor is a completely different environment then a stadium with 100k people making lots of random noises where the thing you are trying to eaves drop on is moving around.

There is a concept called signal to noise ratio In communications (yes I took a class in this many many moons ago). The basic idea is that if there is way more noise then signal it becomes impossible to decipher the original signal. For communications systems this can be managed with certain types of redundancy, but when trying to pick up an audio signal no such redundancy exists.

What a parabolic reflector does is only picks up the sound from a specific line of sight, thus eliminating most of the noise from other directions. Without being able to isolate the sound it becomes impossible to isolate a single voice from 100k people talking and making noise in a stadium.

It's easy to hypothesize that a technology exists, or could exist that could achieve those objectives in real time no less. Fortunately no such technology is possible, otherwise it would exist and nobody would ever have any privacy anywhere.

And again if you don't think your magic eaves dropping technology would be used what is your point?

And again they already have the play caller the sends the play into a hopefully secure wireless device to the relay person, so how could it open up any additional exposure if that signal went directly to the player on the field, instead of the guy(s) relaying the calls to the players.

I sure hope this dies now, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

I spent 40+ years developing state-of-the-art communications technology for military and commercial purposes. Conventional signal-to-noise ratio is no longer the limitation like what we were taught back in the day. With the advent of AI, coherent speech can be isolated from background noise. So, for example, let's say the QB's helmet has a speaker that he uses to listen to the call. The exterior of the helmet will vibrate slightly along with the audio from the speaker. (Or, alternatively, the coach's laminated play sheet could be a target.) An invisible laser aimed at the helmet will reflect a modulated signal that can be detected and demodulated to reproduce the audio. (Similar to law enforcement or pitching coaches using laser guns for speed detection.) And if there's stadium noise, AI can extract the audio. So, yes, it's feasible. However, I should hope that no program would stoop to that level, especially after the impending Michigan debacle. Then again, I could see some school's engineering dept taking it on as a student project.

OK, I'm done now.

 

[TXFF]

In the NFL only one player on the field for each team has a speaker in their helmet. It gets shut off before the play starts.

I am not sure why they don't allow all of the players to have speakers, it could speed up the game, which seems mostly good.

I've wondered about this. The QB has to communicate the call to the rest of the offense through hand signals and/or commands. The defense could certainly steal the call at that point, and I'm confident it happens in the NFL.

Not sure the complexity of all helmets having speakers is the answer. There would have to be a full-time tech on the sidelines to keep them all working.

Hopefully the NCAA and/or B1G comes down hard on Michigan to make an example of them. Deterrence may be the best solution if it's harsh enough.

 

[dssl]

I spent 40+ years developing state-of-the-art communications technology for military and commercial purposes. Conventional signal-to-noise ratio is no longer the limitation like what we were taught back in the day. With the advent of AI, coherent speech can be isolated from background noise. So, for example, let's say the QB's helmet has a speaker that he uses to listen to the call. The exterior of the helmet will vibrate slightly along with the audio from the speaker. (Or, alternatively, the coach's laminated play sheet could be a target.) An invisible laser aimed at the helmet will reflect a modulated signal that can be detected and demodulated to reproduce the audio. (Similar to law enforcement or pitching coaches using laser guns for speed detection.) And if there's stadium noise, AI can extract the audio. So, yes, it's feasible. However, I should hope that no program would stoop to that level, especially after the impending Michigan debacle. Then again, I could see some school's engineering dept taking it on as a student project.

OK, I'm done now.

Are you sure your done?

As far as lasers on the helmets? First the helmets could be designed to minimize any transmission to the shell. 2nd you would not only have to accurately aim the laser at the helmet, in such a way that the beam not only hits the helmet, but is reflected back to a detector, all this without being detected.

You still haven't addressed my 2 points, ie, what's your point? And how is this opening up any new vulnerabilities( I'm not buying the laser thing at all, but I guess you are going to stick with it).

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I spent 40+ years developing state-of-the-art communications technology for military and commercial purposes. Conventional signal-to-noise ratio is no longer the limitation like what we were taught back in the day. With the advent of AI, coherent speech can be isolated from background noise. So, for example, let's say the QB's helmet has a speaker that he uses to listen to the call. The exterior of the helmet will vibrate slightly along with the audio from the speaker. (Or, alternatively, the coach's laminated play sheet could be a target.) An invisible laser aimed at the helmet will reflect a modulated signal that can be detected and demodulated to reproduce the audio. (Similar to law enforcement or pitching coaches using laser guns for speed detection.) And if there's stadium noise, AI can extract the audio. So, yes, it's feasible. However, I should hope that no program would stoop to that level, especially after the impending Michigan debacle. Then again, I could see some school's engineering dept taking it on as a student project.

OK, I'm done now.

How does it perform with severe impact?

 

[Eastexhorn]

I don't know the details of the sat box, but do know that secure communication channels can be created. Here is a bit of a primer, if you are really interested in the subject

Secure channel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Quote from link. There no secure channels in the real world. Looks like the security you are talking about is similar to sat. encription. The article mentioned a key sat. uses 12 or more but is still hacked.

This is proably of no intrest ot most on board so this is last on subject.

 

[dssl]

Quote from link. There no secure channels in the real world. Looks like the security you are talking about is similar to sat. encription. The article mentioned a key sat. uses 12 or more but is still hacked.

This is proably of no intrest ot most on board so this is last on subject.

"Using the public key in conjunction with the private key, each entity can either encrypt or decrypt the secret. For now, public key cryptography is effectively impossible to breach. With existing computing technology, one estimate holds it would take 300 trillion years to “brute force” an RSA 2048-bit key.Jul 15, 2022"

That sounds pretty secure to me.