Lodge to A&M

[Pancho Negro]

Nah, man, Randolph is good people and a solid Longhorn.  He just doesn't like Strong.  That is to say he has no animus against him personally, he just didn't think he was the man for the job.

He is wrong, of course. 

Who exactly did he want as the HC? 

It's clear he doesn't like Strong. Why I wonder....

 

[doc longhorn]

Who exactly did he want as the HC? 

It's clear he doesn't like Strong. Why I wonder....

He'll have to answer that, but he seems like he might have been a Briles kind of guy.  I think he is smart enough to know that Saban was pie-in-the-sky.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Who exactly did he want as the HC?

It's clear he doesn't like Strong. Why I wonder....

I wanted David Shaw, but that wasn't happening.

I'm OK with Charlie Strong. If I were to define expectations for the best coach in the game at the six month point, I would hope for more than little, if any, momentum in recruiting, a less than impressive staff, a spring game that was a waste of time and him admonishing the faithful to have low expectations.

I'm judging Strong on results and so far he hasn't delivered much. Its tough to get excited over a heaping pile of nothing. I think every coach in the conference honestly believes he can beat UT this fall.

 

[Randolph Duke]

I don't think quantity is the issue, Joe. Aggies most important player certainly signed up for online courses - the jury is out on who took the tests, however. You taking bets on this, by-the-way?

I will bet big money Sumlin has never told a recruit "Johnny was special so he got special treatment that you will never be entitled to." If Manziel got to take a semester long vacation in Cali and party at the beach, you better believe every recruit thinks he is going to be able to avoid classes and do a lot of online work. Recruiting is done on perception, not reality. Sumlin created one hell of an image by allowing Manziel to party his ass off and nobe bothered with classwork like students have to deal with.
All Sumlin has to say to a recruit is "That's how we roll" and Charlie Strong won't stand a chance with him.

 

[PropositionJoe]

That semester long vacation you're referring to (which I assume is the one in the texags video) was actually one week during the summer of 13.

 

[Randolph Duke]

That semester long vacation you're referring to (which I assume is the one in the texags video) was actually one week during the summer of 13.

And appearances at the Super Bowl, the NBA all star game, trips to Toronto where his boyfriend was appearing, down to Miami to watch LeBron play, court side at the Rockets games, trips to Connecticut to sign autographs, etc, etc. Every week there were pictures of Johnny on vacation, living large. He was not on campus, sitting in class 5 days a week and studying on weekends. It was one big party.
And, please, spare us the aggy response that because he was the most famous athlete in sports, for the security and safety of both Johnny and the students on campus he couldn't be expected to actually sit in a classroom or be on campus. That is just another in a long line of aggy bullshit only aggys fall for. The future king of England was able to spend four years on a university campus attending classes. Johnny spent the spring on extended vacation because he wanted to and tamu officials didn't give a crap what Manziel did as long as the cash rolled in. Sumlin has turned the Manziel party life into one big recruiting pitch and Charlie Strong has nothing to counter with.

 

[doc longhorn]

And appearances at the Super Bowl, the NBA all star game, trips to Toronto where his boyfriend was appearing, down to Miami to watch LeBron play, court side at the Rockets games, trips to Connecticut to sign autographs, etc, etc. Every week there were pictures of Johnny on vacation, living large. He was not on campus, sitting in class 5 days a week and studying on weekends. It was one big party.

And, please, spare us the aggy response that because he was the most famous athlete in sports, for the security and safety of both Johnny and the students on campus he couldn't be expected to actually sit in a classroom or be on campus. That is just another in a long line of aggy bullshit only aggys fall for. The future king of England was able to spend four years on a university campus attending classes. Johnny spent the spring on extended vacation because he wanted to and tamu officials didn't give a crap what Manziel did as long as the cash rolled in. Sumlin has turned the Manziel party life into one big recruiting pitch and Charlie Strong has nothing to counter with.

Joe - I think Randolph has a valid point here.  You believe it is a straw man, but why do you?  If online classes were available to Manziel, why not to every one of Sumlins players?  More importantly, why wouldn't this little perk be bandied about while recruiting? 

Wouldn't you?  Especially to the jackasses that were borderline criminals anyway or, let's face it, those that were dumb as a stump? 

Hell, if Manziel is going to be a recruiting icon, why not advertize how great his life was and how a recruits could be?  Especially at a dump like College Station?

You know - "Show me the money, the girls, the life, etc., etc.".

 

[PropositionJoe]

Most of the events that duke mentioned were over the summer.

Parents are signing off on their kids going to A&M. You think the online course sales pitch would play with parents?

As far as the borderline criminals piece you do realize that A&M and UT are recruiting the same exact players right? So somehow these kids are good enough to get a coveted offer from charlie but turn into criminals when they get to college station?

Also the notion of college station being a dump is in the eye of the beholder. College kids seem to like it a lot.

The simple truth is that the A&M staff is filled with excellent/elite recruiters. The horn staff is not. Everything else is just window dressing to that simple difference between the two staffs.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Most of the events that duke mentioned were over the summer.

Parents are signing off on their kids going to A&M. You think the online course sales pitch would play with parents?

As far as the borderline criminals piece you do realize that A&M and UT are recruiting the same exact players right? So somehow these kids are good enough to get a coveted offer from charlie but turn into criminals when they get to college station?

Also the notion of college station being a dump is in the eye of the beholder. College kids seem to like it a lot.

The simple truth is that the A&M staff is filled with excellent/elite recruiters. The horn staff is not. Everything else is just window dressing to that simple difference between the two staffs.

The Super Bowl was not over the summer. Neither was the NBA all-star game, the court side seats at the Rockets games, the vacation on the beach, the romantic weekends with Drake, etc,etc.
The kids turn from kids with potential into character problems because of the lack of leadership and the lack of account accountability under Sumlin. Why did Golden and Claiborne pull an armed robbery during a drug deal? Because they thought they would get away with it. Claiborne had to have been using drugs prior to his arrest. Where were the drug tests? Why was he out partying with Speedy and Golden? If he was out partying after his first arrest, why wasn't he under weekly drug testing? Is Sumlin so clueless he doesnt know what his character risks are doing? Why in God's name was Speedy Noil, only on campus for six weeks, out with a player who had been arrested for drug possession?

After Manziel got arrested and Sumlin assured he would not lose any playing time, part of the agreement was that Manziel would attend out patient substance abuse counseling. Minutes after the Cotton Bowl, the kid who had spent the fall in outpatient rehab was taken out binge drinking, even though he was under age. Who in the hell takes kid who has been in counseling out binge drinking? Where is the leadership over there? THAT is how good kids who need leadership go wrong - because of the lack of leadership.

This whole thing is just another example of the aggy inability to be self aware. Every bit of criticism from the outside is taken as an attack from those who are "butthurt" and jealous of all the greatness that aggy believes makes them who they are. Before the bonfire collapse, people warned there was a lack of judgment, a lack of leadership and someone needed to get control of the situation before something happened. The ags took it as an attack, ignored all outside suggestions and we all know what happened. Yet again, people are warning about a lack of judgment, a lack of leadership and that Sumlin needs to get control of the situation. Gee... I wonder how all this will turn out. One guess - not well.

 

[doc longhorn]

In defense of Joe, what do we expect from him - to say A&M is a piece of crap?

Joe loves his school and appears to have the mind set of our political parties, i.e.; If Tarzan and Cheeta were running on their political ticket, they would defend them.

 

[Sejjr]

Nah, man, Randolph is good people and a solid Longhorn. He just doesn't like Strong. That is to say he has no animus against him personally, he just didn't think he was the man for the job.

He is wrong, of course.

I know Duke is a solid Longhorn. I've enjoyed and read many of his posts and believe he is spot on with many of his points about aggy. His comments on Strong and recruiting really got under my skin and are just wrong, and I am not going to sugarcoat my opinions on it. But to each their own I suppose.

 

[drgilbert]

I googled recruiting ranks and winning BCS championships. The teams that had the most 4 and 5* recruits since 2005(I think) won championships. But you also had 3 or 4 teams that had not been averaging top 10 recruiting classes but wound up in the top 10 after all the bowl games. So if we wind up as a top ten team at the end of the year the we ride our wave of momentum and start getting better classes.

 

[Sejjr]

Funny, someone just sent me an image of Russell Wilson's' Rivals ranking coming out of High School. He was a 2-star. Rankings don't always mean much.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Funny, someone just sent me an image of Russell Wilson's' Rivals ranking coming out of High School. He was a 2-star. Rankings don't always mean much.

So was JJ Watt.

For every 5-star flop, there's an overachieving player.  The key is finding character guys.  Maybe Strong's discipline has just shrunk the talent pool?

 

[Randolph Duke]

My concern is not that Charlie Strong isn't getting flashy recruits. I'm not claiming to have a better list of recruits that Charlie needs to be concentrating on. I have all the confidence he can target the recruits he feels he needs to be successful. My concern is that he isn't getting the recruits he is targeting. Toss aside the evaluations everyone else has made and look only at the evaluations Charlie has made. Of a group of 15 recruits he has identified, 13 of them have turned their back on him and rejected what he had to offer. How is that meaningless and not a cause for people to follow things a bit closer in hope of a sign he is able to start signing more of the players he has identified as those he needs to be successful?

 

[drgilbert]

I understand your concern on losing recruits he has targeted. My guess would be all of those recruits were 4* to 5* recruits. CS has not built up the relationship with those kids that our competitors have. I would guess those kids have been getting recruited hard for at least two years. But not by our current staff. We lost one recruit because his connection to us was Wyatt. Then you throw in the uncertainty of new staff plus actual rules the kids have to follow. I can see these things helping to contribute to him losing out on some recruits.

 

[Randolph Duke]

I understand your concern on losing recruits he has targeted. My guess would be all of those recruits were 4* to 5* recruits. CS has not built up the relationship with those kids that our competitors have. I would guess those kids have been getting recruited hard for at least two years. But not by our current staff. We lost one recruit because his connection to us was Wyatt. Then you throw in the uncertainty of new staff plus actual rules the kids have to follow. I can see these things helping to contribute to him losing out on some recruits.

The rules Strong has are a philosophical issue. If you want a program to rack up a bunch of wins over a 6-8 year period, follow the Miami model of the late 80s/ early 90s. It seems aggy is following that model. If you want longer term success, follow the model Coach Strong is espousing. I am on board with that.
In know Proposition Joe doesn't think the way Sumlin handled Manziel is significant, but I think it is the main driver in the success aggy is having right now, to the detriment of Texas, OU and a number of other schools. Sumlin can honestly claim Manziel would not have won the Heisman under any other coach. Any other coach would have sat Manziel for at least a series to hold him accountable for his arrest. Any punishment would have affected his numbers in what was a close Heisman vote. The "party all the time" image Manziel imprinted on the aggy program is certainly appealing to recruits looking to make a party out of their college football experience. I also think the aggy overall push for online education is appealing to recruits who have no interest in sitting in a classroom.

That being said, if a pitcher was 2-13, it would seem reasonable to wonder when he was going to notch his third win. If a coach in any sport was 2-13, it would seem reasonable to wonder when we should reasonably expect things to turn around. I would love for someone to interview the two defensive first round draft picks Strong just put in the NFL and ask them why they think Charlie Strong isn't killing it on the recruiting front yet.

 

[PropositionJoe]

Had we sat manziel for a series it would have been against Florida.

Given his performance against Florida and how he improved throughout the season he probably still would have won the Heisman.

I also think that the "party all the time" line is silly and sounds a lot like what A&M fans used to make themselves feel better about mack recruiting lights out in the early 00s.

 

[primal defense]

I wanted David Shaw, but that wasn't happening.

I'm OK with Charlie Strong. If I were to define expectations for the best coach in the game at the six month point, I would hope for more than little, if any, momentum in recruiting, a less than impressive staff, a spring game that was a waste of time and him admonishing the faithful to have low expectations.

I'm judging Strong on results and so far he hasn't delivered much. Its tough to get excited over a heaping pile of nothing. I think every coach in the conference honestly believes he can beat UT this fall.

Your OK with Charlie Strong. Really, your posting about Charlie Strong from the day he was hired would suggest otherwise. You can be as anti Charlie Strong as you like, but don't pretend your OK with him.

 

[primal defense]

Who exactly did he want as the HC? 

It's clear he doesn't like Strong. Why I wonder....

Bingo!  From the day Charlie Strong was hired, Duke has been posting that Strong is going to be a failure. As far as why, don't know and I don't care. I look at this thread as just another way for him to have an anti Strong rant.