Out of state vs in state recruiting

[utisdabomb12]

I saw this discussion on several boards and thought I would chime in. 

1-Recruiting is not about just getting highly rated players it's also about getting players that fit your system. IMO Mack often would settle for a player that was higher ranked, but a player that wouldn't fit the system. I always felt Mack needed to put more effort out of state and find more players that were better for the system we were running. Burt is the prime example. Other then maybe Lodge there isn't another viable option in Texas for the type of mold Strong is looking for. If you watch some old Louisville film Strong likes to put tall/lanky type molds on the outside in 2 WR sets. Texas will go after more Burt molds then say Newsome molds IMO. Strong runs a bunch of two WR sets with Burt molds on the outside. 

2-The idea that Strong will upset Texas High School coaches is far fetched. If Texas wins they will get recruits in the state. People said the same thing about Saban a few years back. Bottom line, if you win you will get recruits. Regardless, I think people put entirely too much stock in upsetting high school coaches. 

3-I still believe that Texas has the best high school football in the country, but I also believe in state recruits are over ranked because of this hype. This is not to say Texas shouldn't go after in state recruits. Rather, Texas shouldn't be afraid to go after recruits out of state just because they are ranked lower. I think the perception that "high school football in the state of Texas is the best" distorts recruiting evaluations/rankings. 

4-The other reason I believe recruiting out of state is a good thing is it slows down the process. It forces coaches to make evaluations, look at more players, etc. One of the main reasons Mack would always get these early commits is because he would throw out a bunch of instate offers without really ever going after out of state players. I think Strong's approach is about right. Offer the top tier players you want in state and top tier players you want out of state. Don't throw out offers to second tier in state players until you've exhausted all options out of state on top tier players. This might cause Texas to miss out on a few second tier players in Texas but would minimize situations like Garza and Campbell. 

This isn't intended to bash Mack either. I will always be thankful for what Mack brought to the program, but I disagreed with some of the things he did on the recruiting trail. 

 

[Matt Cotcher]

I wondered today whether or not Coach Brown would've recruited Burt. With his deep family ties to Austin & UT, it's a better question than most, who are too quick to dismiss, think.

 

[BudreauReye]

I wondered today whether or not Coach Brown would've recruited Burt. With his deep family ties to Austin & UT, it's a better question than most, who are too quick to dismiss, think.

He proly woulda!  He went after Jordan Hicks ... and don't forget that Senior placelicker Michael Davidson is from Aberdeen, Scotland!

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I think if UT goes after a certain caliber athlete at a certain position, and there's only one that fits that criteria in state - and said athlete verbals to aggy or somewhere else, then UT should absolutely go find what they want somewhere else.

UT is not married to second tier due to the decision of a high school athlete.

 

[texasdobbs]

I think in state is important. ... but with Strong's OOS connections it would be stupid not to recruit both to find the players you need...

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I wondered today whether or not Coach Brown would've recruited Burt. With his deep family ties to Austin & UT, it's a better question than most, who are too quick to dismiss, think.

I find it interesting that UT didn't start recruiting Burt until after he reached out to us.

Certainly makes Jameis Winston's story about "not being recruited by Texas" more plausible. Not that I regret the loss given his off-field issues.

 

[GBT]

If Texas wants to get back to being relevant in the National Championship picture, they CANNOT play politics. They have to recruit and get those players they need, no matter where they come from. Be it JUCO, OOS, or here in Texas; Charlie must get them. There is a little something to be said for COACHING Xs and Os, discipline, hard work, etc....A well coached team can beat a more talented team on any given day........BUT..... There is no substitute for TALENT. With everything being equal; when you pit two well coached, disciplined teams on the field, the one with the most talent will win every time. We have to go get great players where ever we can find them.

 

[echeese]

Overall a well written piece. . .but sorry, #4 is not correct

4-The other reason I believe recruiting out of state is a good thing is it slows down the process. It forces coaches to make evaluations, look at more players, etc. One of the main reasons Mack would always get these early commits is because he would throw out a bunch of instate offers without really ever going after out of state players. 

This isn't intended to bash Mack either. I will always be thankful for what Mack brought to the program, but I disagreed with some of the things he did on the recruiting trail. 

Mack was just the opposite of your claim, he very much limited his offers. . . if we had 20 spots, it was almost unusual we had 30 offers.

Mack made TEXAS the destination school in the state and he did it with TEXAS players overall.

Keep in mind we are talking about a program that from 2001 through 2009, won a title and was basically 1 play away from either winning or playing for 3 more. . . .

I think that point should be re-worded to say: "Mack would take a lower rated prospect from TEXAS often at the expense of a higher rated OOS prospect who legitimately was interested in playing for TEXAS". . . .

 

[echeese]

I find it interesting that UT didn't start recruiting Burt until after he reached out to us.

Certainly makes Jameis Winston's story about "not being recruited by Texas" more plausible. Not that I regret the loss given his off-field issues.

I took the time to read EVERY SINGLE article Rivals wrote about Winston and his recruitment. . . .

Not one article mentioned TEXAS or any interest he might have had in TEXAS.    Frankly given Mack's fondest for finding teh "next Vince". . . kid who went to tOSU . .. Lyan Ryan .. .Sherrod Harris. . . John Chiles. . . . .I think if Winston had even farted in TEXAS' direction, we'd have been all over him .. . . 

But for a kid to claim he was interested in TEXAS and not mention us once in 60 something articles. . .I'm calling bullshit. . .google searched too. . . 

One day I hope we hear the truth. . . .

 

[monarch]

I took the time to read EVERY SINGLE article Rivals wrote about Winston and his recruitment. . . .

Not one article mentioned TEXAS or any interest he might have had in TEXAS.    Frankly given Mack's fondest for finding teh "next Vince". . . kid who went to tOSU . .. Lyan Ryan .. .Sherrod Harris. . . John Chiles. . . . .I think if Winston had even farted in TEXAS' direction, we'd have been all over him .. . . 

But for a kid to claim he was interested in TEXAS and not mention us once in 60 something articles. . .I'm calling bullshit. . .google searched too. . . 

One day I hope we hear the truth. . . .

actually, i may be one of only a chosen few, that sincerely feels that there may be a bit of credibility.. as per those alleged rape charges.  there is just something about this jameis character....

 

[echeese]

actually, i may be one of only a chosen few, that sincerely feels that there may be a bit of credibility.. as per those alleged rape charges.  there is just something about this jameis character....

Might be me but not sure what you are saying. . . .

As I said, if he was interested in TEXAS .. .none of the Rivals guys reported it. . . and Jeff Howe said he never heard a peep either. . . 

But who knows. . . ..kids' dad went to FSU. . .he lived in Bama. . . .. maybe he did want a TEXAS offer. . . might have been the only school that didn't offer him. . . .

 

[Throthefade]

I will never believe that Winston reached out to Mack and UT didn't recruit him. Mack is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and even at the end he did some dang good recruiting. What killed Mack is the lack of development of those kids.

Like I stated in another thread, Ohio St, Alabama, Florida ST, USC all go out of state to get kids and all those states have great players. I think it is good to go out of state to get a few players because UT has a national brand. As long as he does his due diligence in Texas he will do fine. 20 Texas kids and 4 OOS kids is a good mix IMO. One year June Jones had 30 offers out to Texas kids and 32 to California kids. Those are the types of things that should get you banished from the state.

 

[Mike Garland]

I will never believe that Winston reached out to Mack and UT didn't recruit him. Mack is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and even at the end he did some dang good recruiting. What killed Mack is the lack of development of those kids.

Like I stated in another thread, Ohio St, Alabama, Florida ST, USC all go out of state to get kids and all those states have great players. I think it is good to go out of state to get a few players because UT has a national brand. As long as he does his due diligence in Texas he will do fine. 20 Texas kids and 4 OOS kids is a good mix IMO. One year June Jones had 30 offers out to Texas kids and 32 to California kids. Those are the types of things that should get you banished from the state.

+1

 

[Bevostuntdouble]

 There is definitely outside talent that we need to evaluate and bring in, for sure. With every OOS commit we gain ground in said area... With that said, there is a certian pride that can really only be shared by Texans. That is reading through our states rosters and knowing that the vast majority of our players hail from our great country. That is something that, I believe, no other state can claim. Its a great source of pride for me when discussing our program. But we should def still evaluate and bring in OOS players that fit our needs and team objectives.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I will never believe that Winston reached out to Mack and UT didn't recruit him. Mack is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and even at the end he did some dang good recruiting. What killed Mack is the lack of development of those kids.

It sounds like BS to me, too, but that's what Famous Jameis said.  And he's a fine, upstanding young man.  Would he lie to us?  

FSU - Free Seafood University

 

[PeteA422]

actually, i may be one of only a chosen few, that sincerely feels that there may be a bit of credibility.. as per those alleged rape charges.  there is just something about this jameis character....

Well, when you give someone crabs, you can't expect them not to try and come after you! Hahahaha!

 

[GBT]

WHAT MAKES UP A STAR ??? getting an offer from a big time program. Some guru saying the player is good. Standing out on a crap team or crap district, area, or state ? Being a starter for 3 or 4 years ? That all puts false stars up. Even starting for four years. Just because you are the best ___ on the team doesn't mean you are really any good. It just means you are the best at that position for that team. Sure some guys are rated properly, but its a crap shoot when it comes to STAR ratings. 

Saying a coach developed a 3 star into an NFL caliber player is BS. The kid was underrated !!! Should have been a 4 or 5 star. No amount of coaching is going to take a real 2 or 3 star kid and make him a GREAT player. Average and mediocre can't get great. 

Example; If you are slow, you can train with the best olympic coach in the world and you will get a little faster, but you ain't winning  a race against SPEED GUYS. The same holds true for football players who are average. They aren't getting much better and can't compete against the elite players.

You can see great and above average talent in a Freshman. If not, he hasn't got it and no amount of coaching will make him good enough to compete against really talented players. Coaches across the nation will tell you," An average Freshman or sophomore will be an average junior or senior." Coaches are not miracle workers.. 

On the other hand, poor coaching can hold good and great players back.

We will see just how much Mack's staff held these guys back and or how much/little talent this team has/hasn't got this season. It won't be determined by wins and loses, but how well they compete.

My take is Mack and his staff stopped developing players, but more so, stopped evaluating talent.  ( most people know this already ) I think they coached their butts off after they realized they had crapped in their mess-kit and were on the verge of losing their jobs, but it was too late. They didn't have the talent to beat good teams. ( OU was hammered by injuries at the time or we would have lost to them ), We had Diaz or just got rid of him when we played BYU and Ole Miss.  Baylor, Oregon, and OSU were very good.

Do we have talent ? Yes, but not enough across the board to beat really good teams....or maybe Charlie Company can get them playing over their heads. All that will be answered in the coming months. I'm excited to see what the Horns can do on the field and in recruiting. 

Mack drove us to the top of the mountain, and then into quicksand. Now we see if Charlie can drive us out of it, and back onto the mountain top. he will do it with TALENTED players, not STAR rated players.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

WHAT MAKES UP A STAR ??? getting an offer from a big time program. Some guru saying the player is good. Standing out on a crap team or crap district, area, or state ? Being a starter for 3 or 4 years ? That all puts false stars up. Even starting for four years. Just because you are the best ___ on the team doesn't mean you are really any good. It just means you are the best at that position for that team. Sure some guys are rated properly, but its a crap shoot when it comes to STAR ratings. 

Saying a coach developed a 3 star into an NFL caliber player is BS. The kid was underrated !!! Should have been a 4 or 5 star. No amount of coaching is going to take a real 2 or 3 star kid and make him a GREAT player. Average and mediocre can't get great. 

Stop trying to make sense out of the nonsensical, GBT.  You'll drive yourself nuts!

Rivals', 247's, etc. "star ratings" systems are oftentimes a glorified beauty contest.  Yes, players do get rated higher if they attend a majority of these 'prestigious' camps, their HS coaches successfully lobby for them, and/or they come from traditional HS powers.  But, to your point, you can't take a 4.9 guy and turn him into a 4.5 guy in the 40.  Objective measurables do matter; height, weight, 40, etc.  Many of the NFL Combine tests are good tests of athleticism, too, but even these aren't infallible.  

Based on how CFS is recruiting, it's safe to say that grading our classes based on the number of 4 & 5* are over.  We're gonna have to trust his judgement and ability to project and develop 3* players, too.  He said as much himself.  Why not?  Maybe these kids are hungrier and play with more of an edge than the more ballyhooed recruits.

I guess we'll see.  In Strong We Trust 

 

[echeese]

Well said JB .. . .

Changing subjects. . .when is Justified coming back and is this the last season?   What have you heard. . .