What I Will Be Looking For During Fall Camp (By Daniel Seahorn)

[MikeV73]

Thank you for validating my point, I am glad you have come around.

So in summary:

You agree 100% with my point that recruiting rankings are not infallible - as you illustrated that Teddy Bridgewater "hardly a lesser player" was on Strong's Louisville team. I know your point was that Teddy was only a 3 star recruit from Florida, passed on by the big Florida schools.

Pointing to decent recruiting rankings does not necessarily indicate a team loaded with talent. A better indication is watching them play football.

I thought Teddy was a five star guy who dropped to a four around NSD? Anyone...Buehler?

 

[83Dee]

I just did a little research (unusual for me)... I guess Bridgewater was a 4 star prospect in 2011. 

Daniel, I'd be  interested to know your opinion on the current level of talent at Texas. 

 

[oldhorn2]

Damn!.....Is Bridgewater at camp this year?.....Maybe they didnt have camp yesterday.

We are all so starved for seeing good TEXAS football that we chase any tangent that gives us relief from dwelling on our recent past. We go from kool aide highs to chasing any excuse that takes our minds off this terrible nightmare.....like finding ineptitude in the last staff. We need football again, but we really,really need good Texas football. I expect 7 wins, hope for 8 wins and dream of 9 wins. This is harder than we grasp. We think we have talent that has had no direction.We better hope that is correct. 

 

[83Dee]

Damn!.....Is Bridgewater at camp this year?.....Maybe they didnt have camp yesterday.

We are all so starved for seeing good TEXAS football that we chase any tangent that gives us relief from dwelling on our recent past. We go from kool aide highs to chasing any excuse that takes our minds off this terrible nightmare.....like finding ineptitude in the last staff. We need football again, but we really,really need good Texas football. I expect 7 wins, hope for 8 wins and dream of 9 wins. This is harder than we grasp. We think we have talent that has had no direction.We better hope that is correct. 

I'm with you.  Reasonable and optimistic. 

This is what I have been trying to say.  Bravo on your concise writing style. 

Good line. 

 

[DMAC]

Strong's tenure at Texas wasn't very good. But to discredit what he accomplished at Louisville after the fact is a little over the top.

I am not going to pretend I know more about football than you Daniel.  I don't cover football and recruiting for a living.  

No offense but I wouldn't give 2 piss squirts for what Strong did at Louisville.  Maybe if that was my school I would care.  

I am not a football expert but please point me to the evidence of this glorified player development you are talking about.  Are you pointing the loss to Iowa State after 2 years of his player development?  Maybe evidence is hiding somewhere on the game film vs Kansas after 3 years of this mysterious player development.

There are tons of examples to pick from I guess.  Lopsided losses.  Clock Management.  Player Management.  One of my favorites was pulling Donte Foreman out of the lineup and putting J Gray into the lineup for a failed 4th and 3 vs K-State.  Absolute Brilliance.  

I could go on and on but I am sure there hundreds of my previous posts that already convey my feelings about Charlie so I will just stop here.  

 

[Daniel Seahorn]

I am not going to pretend I know more about football than you Daniel. I don't cover football and recruiting for a living.

No offense but I wouldn't give 2 piss squirts for what Strong did at Louisville. Maybe if that was my school I would care.

I am not a football expert but please point me to the evidence of this glorified player development you are talking about. Are you pointing the loss to Iowa State after 2 years of his player development? Maybe evidence is hiding somewhere on the game film vs Kansas after 3 years of this mysterious player development.

There are tons of examples to pick from I guess. Lopsided losses. Clock Management. Player Management. One of my favorites was pulling Donte Foreman out of the lineup and putting J Gray into the lineup for a failed 4th and 3 vs K-State. Absolute Brilliance.

I could go on and on but I am sure there hundreds of my previous posts that already convey my feelings about Charlie so I will just stop here.

I never said a word about "glorified player development" I'm just saying that trying to take away credit from that staff developing a kid in hindsight because he didn't do the same thing at Texas is a little ridiculous.

You don't have to care about Louisville's program, but to ignore them turning the program around, producing several NFL players (including Teddy) and doing a good job there just because he was a failure at Texas is wild to me. We can't acknowledge he did a great job at UL and a terrible job at Texas without trying to merge the two?

I'm not even going to get into all the stuff you listed because it's not even relevant to what we were discussing and it's already been hashed out several times over.

Like I said in my previous post. This is a thread about fall camp 2017 and not about Charlie Strong. If you want to discuss it further we can PM, but lets not derail the thread.

 

[83Dee]

I'm afraid Daniel is about to shut this thread down.... but I'm going to try anyways. 

The whole derailment started when I questioned the assertion that Texas is loaded with talent.  I hear this all the time.  My question is due to the fact that I have watched many of these players play football for the past three seasons and they don't play football very well. 

The consistent counterpoint to what I wrote above is that while Coach Strong recruited great talent, the results are completely his fault because he didn't develop / coach the great talent he recruited.   

Bringing up the point that Charlie managed to coach, with many of the same assistants, Louisville to back to back 10 win seasons seems relevant to the original question - is Texas really that talented? 

As a true blue Longhorn fan, I stick to my original question, "Is Texas really loaded with talent?" which seems kind of related to the Fall Expectations theme..... I think there are unrealistic expectations for THIS season because of an incorrect assumption that there is great talent here - based on number grades for the past few recruiting classes.  We all agree (I think) that the program is headed in the right direction.... how fast we arrive is a fun topic for offseason fodder. 

 

[DMAC]

I never said a word about "glorified player development" I'm just saying that trying to take away credit from that staff developing a kid in hindsight because he didn't do the same thing at Texas is a little ridiculous.

You don't have to care about Louisville's program, but to ignore them turning the program around, producing several NFL players (including Teddy) and doing a good job there just because he was a failure at Texas is wild to me. We can't acknowledge he did a great job at UL and a terrible job at Texas without trying to merge the two?

I'm not even going to get into all the stuff you listed because it's not even relevant to what we were discussing and it's already been hashed out several times over.

Like I said in my previous post. This is a thread about fall camp 2017 and not about Charlie Strong. If you want to discuss it further we can PM, but lets not derail the thread.

When Strong was first hired I was giddy as a preschooler on Christmas morning because of what he did at UL.  

Some players are just special with the IT factor.  That was my point.  How many times did Greg Davis and Mack try to change VY's throwing motion?  Numerous times apparently in one of the documentarys.  It wasnt until Mack said let VY throw the way hes most comfortable and leave him be that he really became great.  I dont think it would have mattered much who the OC and QB coach was IMO.  VY was just a freak and my all time favorite horn.  

VY and Teddy are the types of players that make coaches look good.  Not the other way around.  That was my point.  

To say Teddy is a great QB because Strong mentored him into a great QB is a little over the top to me.  

Strong couldnt even prove he was defensive guru HERE let alone a great QB coach.

Besides if I gave Strong or Watson credit it would contradict my low opinion of both coaches. 

The above was meant as a self inflicted jab at myself in an attempt at sarcastic humor.

Appreciate your insight and your work here Daniel.  Each to his own regarding Strong.

Moving on...

 

[Daniel Seahorn]

When Strong was first hired I was giddy as a preschooler on Christmas morning because of what he did at UL.

Some players are just special with the IT factor. That was my point. How many times did Greg Davis and Mack try to change VY's throwing motion? Numerous times apparently in one of the documentarys. It wasnt until Mack said let VY throw the way hes most comfortable and leave him be that he really became great. I dont think it would have mattered much who the OC and QB coach was IMO. VY was just a freak and my all time favorite horn.

VY and Teddy are the types of players that make coaches look good. Not the other way around. That was my point.

To say Teddy is a great QB because Strong mentored him into a great QB is a little over the top to me.

Strong couldnt even prove he was defensive guru HERE let alone a great QB coach.

Appreciate your insight and your work here Daniel. Each to his own regarding Strong.

Moving on...

I'm not sure even going to put VY and Teddy in same category.

I never said Strong was directly the reasoning Teddy was good. That would go more towards his OC and QB coach. I'm just saying it's not a given players are going to reach their ceilings or pan out and those coaches helped him get there.

I've been on the coaching side of things so that kind of stuff just rubbed me wrong.

 

[longhorn_mig]

Daniel, what are your thoughts on the flipping of positions with Shack and McMillon. Is this a temporary thing while Shack works his way back into the lineup, or is this a possible permanent move given Shack's injury issues and the desire to have more stability at the Center position?

 

[Daniel Seahorn]

Daniel, what are your thoughts on the flipping of positions with Shack and McMillon. Is this a temporary thing while Shack works his way back into the lineup, or is this a possible permanent move given Shack's injury issues and the desire to have more stability at the Center position?

I think it's a legit possibility that McMillon ends up being the starting center. He graded out higher than Shack did last year so he's earned the right to be in there. I think Shack can still make the starting 5, but the durability concerns are real.

 

[MikeV73]

I'm glad that McMillon has been successful. Hasn't he moved back and forth from the O to the D once or twice?

 

[Daniel Seahorn]

I'm glad that McMillon has been successful. Hasn't he moved back and forth from the O to the D once or twice?

Yep. Really found himself a home at center and guard.

 

[MikeV73]

Met Ahmad Brooks today, super nice guy. He's picking the Horns to take the conference this season, and says our defensive scheme will be a great upgrade this year. He is a homer like myself, but I'm still taking the bait!

 

[texasdalton]

We really need the dominos to start falling with the lineman recruits. Any idea when we can expect to see this happen?