Should the big 12 add UCF?

[ridik01]

Ill make it simple for everyone, Ut will go to the pac 12. Few years ago there was a chance it could happen but dodds wasn't on board, now dodds is out. Bring in Patterson and what school did Patterson come from Arizona st and the pac 12.
Ive said this before there will be 4 16 team conferences soon and that's where I bet texas goes.

You clearly have never been to a PAC game. I want nothing to do with that conference! Their fans are terrible and they very seldom sell out a stadium.

 

[johnabeard]

No, this was a done deal until the Aggies torpedoed it and everyone backed off under the guise of trusting A&M, which was a horrible mistake. A&M then bolted for the SEC, and we replaced them and Missouri, who finally spread its legs far enough for someone to hit it, with WVU and TCU, which flips this argument back to post #37 I just made.
Now with the LHN and the Pac's demand of relinquishing 3rd tier rights, that ship has sailed. In the current landscape, youd see Texas either go into the ACC or independent at this point. We are not going to piss away all that ESPN money just to be in bed with the Pac-12.

I could see Acc, but independent would not be good, in my opinion.

 

[Texasfight10]

UCF is no Boise, UCF is the real deal and a diamond in the rough. Much more potential than USF, better facilities, bigger school, more traditional campus. USF has gone as high as it can go. UCF is going to be like Miami was in the 80's in a few years. They will be the reason why the "U" never gets back to its past glory because, UCF will be able to recruit some of the studs that would fall to Miami to UCF because of better facilities, still in the state of Florida and in a city environment. (Yes, I know much of the same could apply to USF too) but UCF is set up much better to capitalize on this than USF)
Boise did not have the demographics to sustain the success and after Petersen leaving, they will fall off the national radar in the next few years. UCF has much better talent available near them and a larger media market.

Grab UCF and Cincy to get to 12. Both of these schools have high ceilings, UCF higher than Cincy. Short term it will seem like a yawner. In 5-7 years it will be considered a steal.

Miami in the 80's... are you high

 

[irishfred]

I could see Acc, but independent would not be good, in my opinion.

A lot of anti-independent sentiment.

Can I ask why not UT as an independent? What are the downsides?

 

[Nakona Horn]

It's a fallacy to assume that just because UCF is located in Orlando, they automatically bring the local TV ratings with them. There are studies out there with data pertaining to this (I will try to dig it up). I would assume most TV sets in Orlando won't be tuned in just to see UCF vs Kansas, TCU, KSU, Tech, etc on a weekly basis during the season. They will still watch Florida and FSU first and it won't even be close.

The Big 12 doesn't have a conference network so adding teams for their "markets" isn't going to work either. Big 12 is dead in the water and adding Big East leftovers like UCF, Cincy, etc is probably the dumbest thing we can do. Also, the notion we need to add two teams to "get to 12" for a CCG is even worse. That's the only thing I agree with Bowlsby on. Most of the CCGs, except for the SEC, have been failures in terms of attendance, tv ratings, and cost. Playing all every team in your conference in a round robin format, then playing a CCG is going to make getting into the four team playoff a lot harder. Think people!

If the Big 12 is going to survive over the long haul, they need to add significantly tougher and more compelling NON CONFERENCE GAMES. Look at the teams KU, Tech, KSU, WVU, Baylor and other Big 12 schools played this year in non conference. Horrible!!! The Big 12 office has encouraged the teams to keep two slots open to schedule ACC teams as part of their scheduling alliance in the future. Not great, but, I would rather have big 12 schools play ACC teams instead of adding two garbage teams and splitting back up into non-equal divisions.

WVU has started this trend and has scheduled Pitt, Vtech and even PSU over the next few years.

If you want the BEST for UT for ALL SPORTS, that is an associate membership with the ACC similar to Notre Dame's current set up.

It's no coincidence UT and ND have scheduled four games vs each other and are in talks to schedule four to six more.

No coincidence Patterson is looking at getting tamu back on the schedule

No coincidence that Texas is looking at adding LAX and men's soccer.

No coincidence UT is looking at building a brand new basketball facility

Basketball would be elite

Baseball too

If you play ND and four other ACC teams, you will have a BIG TIME schedule to promote the Texas brand across the nation. We would keep OU, add tamu, and probably Tech.

Here is a sample schedule

ND

OU

Lville

UNC

FSU

Pitt

aggy

tech

baylor/tcu

utsa/texas state/utep

Stanford/Nebraska/Arky

Rice

 

[irishfred]

1. What exactly is your point Fred?

Hire the right coach and start Winning. As in right away. No experiments for the hire.

Don't worry about conference realignment. A winning UT can call their shots - for real this time.

Everything will work out in that scenerio.

 

[irishfred]

It's a fallacy to assume that just because UCF is located in Orlando, they automatically bring the local TV ratings with them. There are studies out there with data pertaining to this (I will try to dig it up). I would assume most TV sets in Orlando won't be tuned in just to see UCF vs Kansas, TCU, KSU, Tech, etc on a weekly basis during the season. They will still watch Florida and FSU first and it won't even be close.
The Big 12 doesn't have a conference network so adding teams for their "markets" isn't going to work either. Big 12 is dead in the water and adding Big East leftovers like UCF, Cincy, etc is probably the dumbest thing we can do. Also, the notion we need to add two teams to "get to 12" for a CCG is even worse. That's the only thing I agree with Bowlsby on. Most of the CCGs, except for the SEC, have been failures in terms of attendance, tv ratings, and cost. Playing all every team in your conference in a round robin format, then playing a CCG is going to make getting into the four team playoff a lot harder. Think people!

If the Big 12 is going to survive over the long haul, they need to add significantly tougher and more compelling NON CONFERENCE GAMES. Look at the teams KU, Tech, KSU, WVU, Baylor and other Big 12 schools played this year in non conference. Horrible!!! The Big 12 office has encouraged the teams to keep two slots open to schedule ACC teams as part of their scheduling alliance in the future. Not great, but, I would rather have big 12 schools play ACC teams instead of adding two garbage teams and splitting back up into non-equal divisions.

WVU has started this trend and has scheduled Pitt, Vtech and even PSU over the next few years.

If you want the BEST for UT for ALL SPORTS, that is an associate membership with the ACC similar to Notre Dame's current set up.

It's no coincidence UT and ND have scheduled four games vs each other and are in talks to schedule four to six more.

No coincidence Patterson is looking at getting tamu back on the schedule

No coincidence that Texas is looking at adding LAX and men's soccer.

No coincidence UT is looking at building a brand new basketball facility

Basketball would be elite

Baseball too

If you play ND and four other ACC teams, you will have a BIG TIME schedule to promote the Texas brand across the nation. We would keep OU, add tamu, and probably Tech.

Here is a sample schedule

ND

OU

Lville

UNC

FSU

Pitt

aggy

tech

baylor/tcu

utsa/texas state/utep

Stanford/Nebraska/Arky

Rice

Great post.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

It's a fallacy to assume that just because UCF is located in Orlando, they automatically bring the local TV ratings with them. There are studies out there with data pertaining to this (I will try to dig it up). I would assume most TV sets in Orlando won't be tuned in just to see UCF vs Kansas, TCU, KSU, Tech, etc on a weekly basis during the season. They will still watch Florida and FSU first and it won't even be close.
The Big 12 doesn't have a conference network so adding teams for their "markets" isn't going to work either. Big 12 is dead in the water and adding Big East leftovers like UCF, Cincy, etc is probably the dumbest thing we can do. Also, the notion we need to add two teams to "get to 12" for a CCG is even worse. That's the only thing I agree with Bowlsby on. Most of the CCGs, except for the SEC, have been failures in terms of attendance, tv ratings, and cost. Playing all every team in your conference in a round robin format, then playing a CCG is going to make getting into the four team playoff a lot harder. Think people!

If the Big 12 is going to survive over the long haul, they need to add significantly tougher and more compelling NON CONFERENCE GAMES. Look at the teams KU, Tech, KSU, WVU, Baylor and other Big 12 schools played this year in non conference. Horrible!!! The Big 12 office has encouraged the teams to keep two slots open to schedule ACC teams as part of their scheduling alliance in the future. Not great, but, I would rather have big 12 schools play ACC teams instead of adding two garbage teams and splitting back up into non-equal divisions.

WVU has started this trend and has scheduled Pitt, Vtech and even PSU over the next few years.

If you want the BEST for UT for ALL SPORTS, that is an associate membership with the ACC similar to Notre Dame's current set up.

It's no coincidence UT and ND have scheduled four games vs each other and are in talks to schedule four to six more.

No coincidence Patterson is looking at getting tamu back on the schedule

No coincidence that Texas is looking at adding LAX and men's soccer.

No coincidence UT is looking at building a brand new basketball facility

Basketball would be elite

Baseball too

If you play ND and four other ACC teams, you will have a BIG TIME schedule to promote the Texas brand across the nation. We would keep OU, add tamu, and probably Tech.

Here is a sample schedule

ND

OU

Lville

UNC

FSU

Pitt

aggy

tech

baylor/tcu

utsa/texas state/utep

Stanford/Nebraska/Arky

Rice

I am going to agree with Irishfred that your post is excellent.

I have said for some time that as an ND fan, the thing I would most like to see now is Texas in the ACC as we are. I can see why Texas might have strong preferences to stay in the Big 12, but I also believe that all things considered, Texas would come out best in the ACC with ND.

 

[joebobb]

Add in the Dayton Market too for Cincy and that is an additional 300k sets. The cities are only 45 miles apart

 

[Nakona Horn]

Add in the Dayton Market too for Cincy and that is an additional 300k sets. The cities are only 45 miles apart

on a week to week basis, those markets will tune in to watch ohio state and other B1G teams. Not cincy vs ISU, KSU, TCU, Baylor or Okie state.

 

[Irish in SEC country]

on a week to week basis, those markets will tune in to watch ohio state and other B1G teams. Not cincy vs ISU, KSU, TCU, Baylor or Okie state.

True, but is also true that if UC is in a major conference, UC vs. good teams (say, Texas or OU) will be at least roughly equal draws in the Cincinnati TV market to Ohio St vs. nobodies, including the nobodies in the Big Ten like Minnesota or Rutgers.

UC stepped up in league affiliation and schedule will see rather significant increase in ability to draw TV viewers. What it can never hope to do, especially because of the Bengals, is become a major draw to the stadium.

In that sense, UC is a better bet that UCF, because right now, the large state of OH has only 1 school in a major conference. FL has 3.

 

[Coach840]

UCF and UC are probably the best out there, I would have like four teams from the ACC, if they were interested

 

[joebobb]

True, but is also true that if UC is in a major conference, UC vs. good teams (say, Texas or OU) will be at least roughly equal draws in the Cincinnati TV market to Ohio St vs. nobodies, including the nobodies in the Big Ten like Minnesota or Rutgers.
UC stepped up in league affiliation and schedule will see rather significant increase in ability to draw TV viewers. What it can never hope to do, especially because of the Bengals, is become a major draw to the stadium.

In that sense, UC is a better bet that UCF, because right now, the large state of OH has only 1 school in a major conference. FL has 3.

Irish, agree with everything you are saying except the fact that FLorida is much larger and could potentially support 4 BCS schools just as Ohio could do 2.

Nakona - Dayton is more of an OSU market, but there is a lot of bleed over in the Dayton market to Cincy. There are a ton of UC alums there that follow OSU because their alma mater was not playing at a high level until they joined the big East - CUSA was boring football. If Texas comes to town, there will be 65-70k people there at those games. Same with Oklahoma. When OK played there a few years ago, there were 60k people there. West Virginia always brings big crowds because of proximity. Even Kansas State and Kansas would be draws to them and bring 45-50k a game down there.

 

[echeese]

I said it then. . .TCU was a big mistake . ..we never should have picked them over Louisville which is superior to both UCF and UC . ..couple of reasons . .#1 attendence . ..UL averages in the 48K range + even in their down years . . . UCF and UC in the 32K range #2 TV market the size of Austin. . .UC is an NFL town #3 Geography (more a UCF knock). . .Louisville makes for a natural rival for WVU and helps 'bridge' the distance between them and the rest of the conference . .#4 (purely personal) . ..an every other year road trip to Bourbon row would be awesome. . .add to this a serious basketball upgrade. .

My dream would have been adding UL. .FSU. .GT. .Clemson . ..maybe 2 others but whether it's 12. .14 . . or 16 teams. . 2 divisions and the SEC style only 8 conference games