Question for those "in the know".....

[horns99]

We've all heard that the $EC "cheats, is dirty, etc.." or so and so runs a dirty program... What exactly is it about Saban that people claim that he's no good for Texas? Is there proof that he's cheated and runs a program in an unethical fashion? Or is it that he just gets lumped in with the "$EC crowd" and their reputation?

I think that most major programs "cut corners" or do things that they're not supposed to do, just a matter of who's better at not getting caught.

And for the record I'd take Saban as 1a and Fisher as 1b.

Your thoughts or opinions?

 

[hornonthe40]

I think it goes across all sports. Everyone wants an advantage and will try to bend or circumvent the rules to do so. I personally have no knowledge of Saban or Fisher doing anything fishy.

 

[Darrell McPhaul]

The Bama boosters pay. The whole SEC pays.

Saban culls his roster if necessary. If you don't produce, you are removed.

 

[ut1978]

Over-signing, trapdoors, etc.

 

[GetHooked]

Over-signing, trapdoors, etc.

In some ways I think it is a bad practice. In other ways I think it is just natural selection and an efficient way to run a program.

 

[JKW-Hook 'em]

The Bama boosters pay. The whole SEC pays.
Saban culls his roster if necessary. If you don't produce, you are removed.

McPhaul, do you think the practice of Saban's to cull his roster has the potential to strain relationships with Texas high school coaches? I think one of Mack's better achievements was his ability to re-establish and even improve the relationships with Texas high school coaches that had been significantly damaged during the Mackovic years. Not that I'm opposed to this practice, just wondering if you think it would have any ramifications given it's totally opposite of what Mack established and practiced and told recruits and their high school coaches. Thoughts?

 

[badboy783]

McPhaul' date=' do you think the practice of Saban's to cull his roster has the potential to strain relationships with Texas high school coaches? I think one of Mack's better achievements was his ability to re-establish and even improve the relationships with Texas high school coaches that had been significantly damaged during the Mackovic years. Thoughts?[/quote']
Not McP but if you look at Saban's recruiting classes over the years, I don't think it's hurting him one bit. He runs his NCAA roster with some similarities to the way you run an NFL roster. You earn your paycheck (scholarship), and if you aren't doing what it takes to get the job done then he brings in someone esle with the potential who can. The one thing that you can count on with Saban is that if you are offered a scholarship, you had better understand that you are going to have to come in and work your ass off to keep it. Those that do, likeley have a nice NFL future in front of them. Those that don't, don't deserve it.

 

[badboy783]

I'll add that the one thing Saban understands is personnel and the value of a deep roster. It's one thing to talk about wanting to be two-deep, it's another thing to do it. He loses players to injury, graduation, and the NFL just like everyone else, but has little fall off because of his ability to evaluate talent and build a roster. It starts with the staff he puts together, the player personnel department, and player evaluations. He runs a top notch program top to bottom and for the most part has done a pretty damn good job off keeping the filthy Alabama boosters from ruining what he has going.

 

[JKW-Hook 'em]

Not McP but if you look at Saban's recruiting classes over the years, I don't think it's hurting him one bit. He runs his NCAA roster with some similarities to the way you run an NFL roster. You earn your paycheck (scholarship), and if you aren't doing what it takes to get the job done then he brings in someone esle with the potential who can. The one thing that you can count on with Saban is that if you are offered a scholarship, you had better understand that you are going to have to come in and work your ass off to keep it. Those that do, likeley have a nice NFL future in front of them. Those that don't, don't deserve it.

I agree, but I do think it's a little different in that Saban needs to recruit more on a national or at least regional level given the limited local talent in Alabama versus that in Texas. Therefore, establishing a relationship/pipeline with Texas high school coaches where you have the likes of Sumlin, Briles, Patterson and Stoops to some degree vying for the same kids might be more important than for Alabama. But of course, winning national championships and always being in the hunt is the best recruiting tool. Again, not opposed to this practice...just wondering how it will be received locally.

 

[badboy783]

I agree' date=' but I do think it's a little different in that Saban needs to recruit more on a national or at least regional level given the limited local talent in Alabama versus that in Texas. Therefore, establishing a relationship/pipeline with Texas high school coaches where you have the likes of Sumlin, Briles, Patterson and Stoops to some degree vying for the same kids might be more important than for Alabama. But of course, winning national championships and always being in the hunt is the best recruiting tool. Again, not opposed to this practice...just wondering how it will be received locally.[/quote']
No disrespect to those coaches but Saban and Stoops are the only one with rings on fingers and Saban covers 4 out of 5. There will always be coaches that have better relationships than others in the state. Mack isn't liked by quite a few. Saban brings instant credibility.

 

[Rynin]

I think a lot of the ill will towards Saban and his "dirty" antics, are about how he will cut a player from the team if they dont perform. Not to rehash what has already been said, but I think the coddling at UT needs to stop. Dont get me wrong, if a player has a career ending injury while playing his heart out on the field. I say let him keep his scholarship. If he half asses and doesnt try in practice and gets in trouble off the field. Cut him.

Another thing, is that Saban would bring a CULTURE change to UT. No more "Country Club Atomosphere". And I think it will be a culture shock (pun intended) to some of the players, AD employee's, UT officials etc... if Saban does come to Texas. He is a hard ass, and doesnt coddle the players, and I am perfectly fine with that. We need things to be shaken up around here.

 

[hornonthe40]

The Bama boosters pay. The whole SEC pays.
Saban culls his roster if necessary. If you don't produce, you are removed.

Do you have any proof that Alabama's boosters pays or the whole SEC pays? Do you not think our boosters pay? Or the whole Big 12 doesnt? I'm not sure I'd accuse a school or conference of something probably every school is. If i had proof that they did then the NCAA would probably have that as well. Any idea on if the committee is discussing his roster cuts or inability to control boosters?

 

[littlejon82]

Do you have any proof that Alabama's boosters pays or the whole SEC pays? Do you not think our boosters pay? Or the whole Big 12 doesnt? I'm not sure I'd accuse a school or conference of something probably every school is. If i had proof that they did then the NCAA would probably have that as well. Any idea on if the committee is discussing his roster cuts or inability to control boosters?

Are sec recruits flashing Benjamin's on their twitter accounts not enough proof for you?

 

[Embrey]

It's a fair question. At what level does the Big XII pay its players? Do we all do it or only a few of the programs?

How much of an advantage does the SEC have over the Big XII when it comes to admission standards for athletes? We saw, in part, how badly Nebraska did once they were held to the same academic standard as Texas et al.

 

[86MEHorn]

A couple of years ago, I don't think Saban fit our culture...but the losses and downward trend have taken a toll.

From Feb 2013:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-02-28/alabama-recruiting-oversigning-scholarship-limits-spring-football

Alabama signed 26 players to the 2013 national recruiting class. That put the Crimson Tide at 95—10 over the 85 scholarship maximum.

 

[irishfred]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704243904575630593438793612

 

[echeese]

I agree' date=' but I do think it's a little different in that[b'] Saban needs to recruit more on a national or at least regional level given the limited local talent in Alabama versus that in Texas. [/b] Therefore, establishing a relationship/pipeline with Texas high school coaches where you have the likes of Sumlin, Briles, Patterson and Stoops to some degree vying for the same kids might be more important than for Alabama. But of course, winning national championships and always being in the hunt is the best recruiting tool. Again, not opposed to this practice...just wondering how it will be received locally.

We get very wrapped up on geography but forget what a huge state Texas is. . most recruits at any school come from within a 300 mile radius. . .draw that radius around Bama and you will fine MORE not less talent than you find around Austin. . .

USC under PC was much the same way. . .PC locked up 80-85% of his talent in state (primarily SoCal) and cherry picked the rest . ..

Urban Meyer was a coach who actually recruited Nationally and frankly I think it hurt him long term. . .

Can I prove Saban cheats? No (though I did get the IRS to investigate Will Lyles). . .but I have been told by 2 different sources. .Trent Richardson cost $25,000. . .

And Saban's "roster culling" was so out of hand. . .even the SEC put a stop to it. . . it's pretty out of control when the SEC polices one of their own. .

 

[Donald Boyles]

 

[Lord Vader]

OK...so under Saban, a player who is given an athletic scholarship and doesn't live up to his end of the bargain can lose that scholarship? You mean you actually have to show up and do the work? There is no free ride?

Thats nothing more than anyone of us are asked by our employers. We paid for guys like Brock Fitzhenry to do jack crap at this school. I have no problem with that gravy train ending.