Question for Aggies on this board

[utisdabomb12]

couldnt you say the same about charlie strong and his win over florida?

Sure, I will say he had success though at Florida as a defensive coordinator. I would also say Strong has a BCS victory.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Battered aggy syndrome is such an issue with a lot of their fans that just being competitive in football would get Kevin Sumlin a statue next to Manziel's. Sumlin knows the formula is four creampuffs victories and 4-4 in the SEC. He isn't getting paid to compete for national championships. He is getting paid to go 8-4 each year.

This is just sad, but probably true. One universal truth about aggy straight from their own handbook:

"From the outside looking in, you can't understand it. And from the inside looking out, you can't explain it."

 

[PropositionJoe]

no doubt that strong did a great job of pulling louisville out of the depths of the kragthorpe era.

but i find this post interesting

He has 20 wins. 8 of those are against cupcake nonconference opponents. SMU, South Carolina State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston State, SMU again, UTEP, Sam Houston and Rice. A&M beat a 4-8 Arkansas team in 2012, a 7-6 Ole Miss Team in 2012, a 3-9 Auburn team in 2012, a 8-5 Miss. State in 2012, a 5-7 Missouri in 2012. A 3-9 Arkansas team in 2013, a 9-4 Vanderbilt team in 2014, a 7-6 in Miss. State team in 2013,

charlie has what 3 more wins than sumlin does over a two year stretch. yes sumlin lost to lsu and florida in 2012, and then bama, auburn, lsu and mizzou in 2013.

strong, in that same period has lost to syracuse, connecticut, and ucf. best win by far was florida...but aside from that second best win was what kentucky last year? maybe?

i guess what i'm trying to say is this quote

I have not been impressed with Aggy's performance over the last 2 years. Other than beating Bama in 2012, they have beat any quality team in the past 2 years.

could also apply to strong as well. he's kinda been propped up by a pretty easy schedule. and he's making just as much money as sumlin is.

 

[Topstarr]

Aggyies are aggyies

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

no doubt that strong did a great job of pulling louisville out of the depths of the kragthorpe era.
but i find this post interesting

charlie has what 3 more wins than sumlin does over a two year stretch. yes sumlin lost to lsu and florida in 2012, and then bama, auburn, lsu and mizzou in 2013.

strong, in that same period has lost to syracuse, connecticut, and ucf. best win by far was florida...but aside from that second best win was what kentucky last year? maybe?

i guess what i'm trying to say is this quote

could also apply to strong as well. he's kinda been propped up by a pretty easy schedule. and he's making just as much money as sumlin is.

Man, no wonder Sumlin turned down the USC gig. The expectations in College Station are so much lower. I've already started hearing the new aggy excuse-making spin, "Of course we're not winning championships...the SEC is SO much tougher!" *eye roll*

Needless to say, four conference losses doesn't get you a $2M raise at either USC or UT. It gets your ass in hot water. Strong will feel the heat in Year 1 if we lose 4 Big 12 games.

 

[PropositionJoe]

four losses got mack an extension in january of 2012.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

four losses got mack an extension in january of 2012.

...but not a $2M and 66% raise, just an extension

Chalk that up to DeLoss senility and folly. The gears started turning to expedite his retirement in 2012. Why Powers and the UT Board signed off on that is a mystery.

 

[Randolph Duke]

four losses got mack an extension in january of 2012.

The interesting thing about this coming year is that for college athletes, the biggest jump in improvement usually comes between their freshman and sophomore years. Sumlin had that monster class in 2013. We are about to get out first peek at just how good of a coach he actually is.

 

[hoskins5]

Alabama isn't doing much better IMO. Florida is one of the few teams in that conference that has actually done a good job OOC Scheduling. As far as baseball and basketball go, aggy is really only hurting themselves by not scheduling tough opponents. Not that it matters for them in bball right now but the selection committes for basketball and baseball pay heavy attention to the OOC for bubble teams. Football they will be able to get away with scheduling weak teams Because the consensus reputation of the SEC is so great right now it will over shadow any debate about schedule strength

 

[PropositionJoe]

i think bama has done a decent job. they played vatech last year to start the season and michigan the year before.

 

[utisdabomb12]

four losses got mack an extension in january of 2012.

There was also justification for giving Mack an extension. Mack had a 3-1 BCS record, 1 title and 2 national title games. What had Sumlin done to justify his raise?

 

[utisdabomb12]

no doubt that strong did a great job of pulling louisville out of the depths of the kragthorpe era.
but i find this post interesting

charlie has what 3 more wins than sumlin does over a two year stretch. yes sumlin lost to lsu and florida in 2012, and then bama, auburn, lsu and mizzou in 2013.

strong, in that same period has lost to syracuse, connecticut, and ucf. best win by far was florida...but aside from that second best win was what kentucky last year? maybe?

i guess what i'm trying to say is this quote

could also apply to strong as well. he's kinda been propped up by a pretty easy schedule. and he's making just as much money as sumlin is.

Winning is everything. Sure Strong might not have had a difficult schedule, but he has a BCS victory. He also has 2 titles as a defensive coordinator. At the end of the day, winning is all that matters (and by winning I mean BCS games and titles). The other difference is Sumlin came into a bunch of talent. Strong really had nothing from day one, he completely turned the program around.

 

[PropositionJoe]

What had Sumlin done to justify his raise?

20-8 record isnt too bad. but the main thing that led to his raise was the interest from USC.

i doubt mack's extention in 2012 was related to his accomplishments prior to 2010. he got his bump to 5 mil after the 09 season.

The other difference is Sumlin came into a bunch of talent.

agree that sumlin came into talent, but 99.9% was on the offensive side of the ball.

against chick fila our front 7 was made up of at least 4 true freshmen at any given point in the game.

sherman deserves a ton of credit for what he left sumlin on offense, but he also deserves a lot of blame for what was lacking on defense.

 

[Agmaniacmike]

I don't get the idea that Sumlin just walked into offensive talent. Manziel improved immensely under Sumlin's tutelage as did Evans. Our staff turned their strengths into major advantages on the field and made them better in other areas. None of you guys even knew who Evans was until Sumlin came along (Hint: low ranked and redshirted). At some point, you have to give credit for Sumlin's highly rated offenses just as much as you do for Strong's defenses. Sumlin turned an offense in the top 30-40 into a top 5 offense in spite of losing a top 10 draft pick at QB and replacing him with a one-dimensional freshman. Sumlin-coached teams have been in the top ten of FEI offensive rankings every year but one (2010-QB injuries) since he has been a head coach. I have no doubt that Sumlin will maintain a high quality of offense while at A&M, but he needs to make tougher decisions with defensive staff. There is no reason to keep around a DC with a defense in the 100s.

 

[utisdabomb12]

I don't get the idea that Sumlin just walked into offensive talent. Manziel improved immensely under Sumlin's tutelage as did Evans. Our staff turned their strengths into major advantages on the field and made them better in other areas. None of you guys even knew who Evans was until Sumlin came along (Hint: low ranked and redshirted). At some point, you have to give credit for Sumlin's highly rated offenses just as much as you do for Strong's defenses. Sumlin turned an offense in the top 30-40 into a top 5 offense in spite of losing a top 10 draft pick at QB and replacing him with a one-dimensional freshman. Sumlin-coached teams have been in the top ten of FEI offensive rankings every year but one (2010-QB injuries) since he has been a head coach. I have no doubt that Sumlin will maintain a high quality of offense while at A&M, but he needs to make tougher decisions with defensive staff. There is no reason to keep around a DC with a defense in the 100s.

1-Manziel and Evans are naturally talented players. Sure coaching might help, but they would been good players regardless of coaching.

2-Sumlin fell into a Sherman offensive line. 3 offensive lineman that will be drafted in the first round, all of which were recruited by Sherman. Also, a bunch of other pieces like Ryan Swope that were mainly developed/recruited by Sherman.

 

[doc longhorn]

I don't get the idea that Sumlin just walked into offensive talent. Manziel improved immensely under Sumlin's tutelage as did Evans. Our staff turned their strengths into major advantages on the field and made them better in other areas. None of you guys even knew who Evans was until Sumlin came along (Hint: low ranked and redshirted). At some point, you have to give credit for Sumlin's highly rated offenses just as much as you do for Strong's defenses. Sumlin turned an offense in the top 30-40 into a top 5 offense in spite of losing a top 10 draft pick at QB and replacing him with a one-dimensional freshman. Sumlin-coached teams have been in the top ten of FEI offensive rankings every year but one (2010-QB injuries) since he has been a head coach. I have no doubt that Sumlin will maintain a high quality of offense while at A&M, but he needs to make tougher decisions with defensive staff. There is no reason to keep around a DC with a defense in the 100s.

Manziel and Evans were both RS freshmen in Sumlins first year - Sherman certainly knew who they were, because he recruited them. And the whole OL damn near went to the NFL. Yeah, I would say that Sumlin walked into a ton of talent - just like he did at U of H when Briles left.

I WILL give Sumlin credit for copying Briles offense from U of H - it certainly better utilized the talent he inherited from Sherman. But, like U of H, Sumlins defenses have always stunk. Just like Briles has and the headmaster of both of them - Mike Leach. Their MO have always been to score more than their defenses give up.

And, if A&M can't do that, it will be a long year.

 

[Agmaniacmike]

Manziel was a terrible passer even in first spring practice of Sumlin's tenure. The jump he made from that point on was flat out phenomenal, Sumlin has to get some credit for this development. Evans redshirted because he was so raw, difference makers at WR do not redshirt. He was a basketball player first, once again, all of his development took place under Sumlin. Offensive line- Joeckel and Matthews (overrated due to name) I'll give, Ogbuehi, Mike Matthews, Harrison, Compton have all had their development under Sumlin.

 

[Brasky]

Give me a break. So Sherman, who had an incredible offense himself the year before gets no credit and Sumlin gets all of it??

Sherman gets all of the OL credit because he's a fantastic OL coach and gets basically all of the 2012 credit because that one man show was thanks to Sherman. Sumlin didn't even offer Manziel at UH.

Sherman left you guys loaded. Nobody has even mentioned your RB's, which were very good.

 

[PropositionJoe]

I have no evidence to support this but I feel fairly confident that Sherman would have likely started Jameill showers over manziel in '12.

Again no evidence to support that.

 

[UTPhil2006]

First, that baseball OOC is laughably pathetic. And you guys wonder why RC is consistently outcoached.

Also, I'm confused - are we arguing Aggy vs Louisville now?