Northwestern athletes seek union membership

[Slwilliam]

Apparently you share the entitlement mentality. A good work ethic should be one of the life skills you pick up in college. Nobody is saying student athletes aren't doing anything - but so is everyone else, it's just that instead of playing football they're paying for an education. Student athletes having to bust their hump to complete a lot of class work??? - That's just part of getting an education. Knowledge isn't something they hand out on the last day of class, sometimes you need to pick up a book. Not enough free food? Yeah, food is something that is typically aquired in a transaction for money. Just because you're not used to paying for things doesn't mean you're going to starve to death. Most of us leave school with tens or hundreds of thousands in debt - borrow $5 and walk to Subway.
Most college football players actually take more from the school than they provide. Star players may provide much, much more than the value of their scholarship and living allowance, but these few are given the opportunity to showcase their talents to the world which can earn them a spot in the NFL. In either case it's better to be playing for a scholarship than having raw talent wasting away while you pick weeds in your backyard or picket your school to get more free stuff.

Not trying to sound like an asshole, but that's your fault you have that debt. We punish people for excelling at things now? Next time you get a promotions let the company split your raise to all your co-workers that way it can all be fair despot your hard work. So what should we do with those who get full academic scholarships? Should we punish them? These athletes can't have jobs unlike everyone else. Entitlement is whining and saying "well I had to pay why do they get it free" . Most of these same people cry about things being equal in politics and helping the poor. We can't be survival of the fittest only when is applies to us. So if you are saying these kids get an "education for free" think about how many schools just push students through. "Looking at you sec and unc" just read the article about how many athletes aren't past high school reading levels. The blame first fails on that players parents and that player, but we also have to look at the institutions who allow these short of things to make money off these players. The same players they feel good about trading supposed "education" for them playing a sport and making millions. I am glad to have my free scholarship and the chance to play college football. To say these kids don't even deserve a minimum stipend is crazy.

 

[bbdude]

I would be ok with a stipend of some sort but how do you do award them in a manner that is fair to all student-athletes? Do football players get more than women's basketball players? Do swimmers get more than track and field athletes? Does it only apply to football players?

 

[Slwilliam]

I would be ok with a stipend of some sort but how do you do award them in a manner that is fair to all student-athletes? Do football players get more than women's basketball players? Do swimmers get more than track and field athletes? Does it only apply to football players?

I think easiest would be by revenue. But maybe done within athletic department. From my view point I'm not talking about a lot of money. Some small like a grocery stipend. Minimum wage for 10+ hrs a week? Feel like it's atleast a start.

 

[Davharjac]

I understand that everyone has a tough time in college...I lived was a scholarship ath, I played football. I had three roommates in a four bedroom apt on campus. One was a baseball player on scholarship, another was a band member on partial, and the last was a "normal" student paying his way. My roommate who was actually paying his way through school would often say that he had life way easier than all of us. He would often say he felt bad for me because while he was getting ready to go to a party of Thursday night, I was staying up late finishing up on my school work, and then trying to get to bed to wake up for off season work outs. I love football and I am please with what it did for me in life, I am happy and grateful that I got to have a scholarship, but what I hate is the idea that I took something from my university..I EARNED every penny that was provided for me to attend my university. I woke up a 5:00 AM when most people were sleeping...or finishing their drinking, or face down in their vomit, or whatever the hell people that have free time do in college at 5:00 AM ( I wouldn't know). After my work outs, when most people where crawling out of bed, I was crawling in the showers, then rushing to the caf, then to class..I was told what time I could schedule classes because it couldn't get in the way of practice. After practice we have film which is usually about an hour and a half or so..then you get to go home and study..or maybe not..maybe you have to go to study hall. I understand the "perks" that student aths are give, the social currency, but don't for one damn second have the idea that student aths have an inherent feeling of entitlement... in most cases they are the most hard working dedicated student in the university. Let me tell you it sucks doing homework on a freaking bus and on a plane...and I will agree with Slwilliam about the profs...they were way harder on me than others. The idea was it's going to be tough for you, you're not the avg student, I'm not going to treat you like an avg student. I think something can be done...I'm not saying throw tons of money at them, but they can be further assisted in some form.

 

[aowells]

Not trying to sound like an asshole, but that's your fault you have that debt. We punish people for excelling at things now? Next time you get a promotions let the company split your raise to all your co-workers that way it can all be fair despot your hard work. So what should we do with those who get full academic scholarships? Should we punish them? These athletes can't have jobs unlike everyone else. Entitlement is whining and saying "well I had to pay why do they get it free" . Most of these same people cry about things being equal in politics and helping the poor. We can't be survival of the fittest only when is applies to us. So if you are saying these kids get an "education for free" think about how many schools just push students through. "Looking at you sec and unc" just read the article about how many athletes aren't past high school reading levels. The blame first fails on that players parents and that player, but we also have to look at the institutions who allow these short of things to make money off these players. The same players they feel good about trading supposed "education" for them playing a sport and making millions. I am glad to have my free scholarship and the chance to play college football. To say these kids don't even deserve a minimum stipend is crazy.

How is not paying someone punishing them?

If you interpreted my post as "well I had to pay why do they get it free", I obviously wasn't clear and apologize. I have no problem with scholarships and really don't mind if there's a small stipend associated with it. I just don't share the belief that individual athletes have a claim to football revenues or that they are being exploited if they have to pay for something. Bringing in unions is laughable.

I completely agree that the students who graduate with a middle school reading level and no post-graduation prospects have been ripped off. But that problem won't be fixed by paying them to play. If anything, it will be used as an excuse to continue doing so ("they're semi-pro, academics is secondary").

Incidentally, I HAD debt. I had a full academic scholarship (possibly funded indirectly by football revenue!) which required maintaining a minimum GPA + I worked some through college and paid it off quickly. I'm all about survival of the fittest and won't be splitting my bonus this year, although I will be a SMD (Small money by UT standards anyway).

Without the enticement of a scholarship I would have attended an institution with greater perceived "prestige" and one could argue that I was "bought" for my SAT scores and GPA which contribute to increased academic rankings. I was happy to sell them and I certainly never felt exploited or complained when I had to cover some expenses.

Anyone receiving a scholarship, particularly to an excellent school such as UT is very fortunate. When athletes complain that they aren't getting what they think they "deserve" based on the amount of revenue the school's football program generates, I consider that sense of entitlement to be out of place.

 

[NLeininger]

I'm cheering for these guys. I know the 'shut up, take your scholarship and entertain me' folks will be mad but I always thought the universities and the coaches have agents and attorney's and the players had no advocate. so I'm cheering for the protections that this could represent.

So are the colleges going to have drafts now?

 

[NLeininger]

They've had to go to extreme measures because they can't even get the NCAA to allow schools to give them full cost of attendance. With a program that brings in over $100 million in a year, why can't they pay for parents to be able to attend games? Why can't they insure the players who are playing for them? I've never been a fan of pay for play like an employer/employee relationship but everyone's existence has been better over the last 40 years and but the plight of the athlete has remained the same. He'' they've lowered academic standards to keep the money flowing and idiots graduate all over the country every year.

Players are getting close to a 1/2 million investment for their 4-5 years on campus.

 

[aowells]

So are the colleges going to have drafts now?

Probably an auction.

 

[doc longhorn]

I'm all for paying athletes a stipend. Whether they have a full ride or not, their participation in sports totally consumes their time.

Their sport is their part time job. Unless their family has the means to help financially, they have no way to generate money for college basics - like dating, gas, etc., etc.

 

[NLeininger]

I'm all for paying athletes a stipend. Whether they have a full ride or not, their participation in sports totally consumes their time.Their sport is their part time job. Unless their family has the means to help financially, they have no way to generate money for college basics - like dating, gas, etc., etc.

They are being compensated close to a 1/2 million for their 5 years on campus.

Tuition, room, meals, medical, nutritionists, personal training, tutors, travel to away games and bowl games, etc.

 

[Juan]

I'm all for paying athletes a stipend. Whether they have a full ride or not, their participation in sports totally consumes their time......

The cottage industry known as Title IX loves you and this idea.

 

[Juan]

Players are getting close to a 1/2 million investment for their 4-5 years on campus.

Here is the Bob Stoops quote along these same lines ....

“You know what school would cost here for non-state guy?Over $200,000 for room, board and everything else. That’s a lot of money.

Ask the kids who have to pay it back over 10-15 years with student loans.

You get room and board, and we’ll give you the best nutritionist,

the best strength coach to develop you, the best tutors to help you

academically, and coaches to teach you and help you develop. How much

do you think it would cost to hire a personal trainer and tutor for 4-5 years?

“I don’t get why people say these guys don’t get paid. It’s simple, they are

paid quite often, quite a bit and quite handsomely.”

 

[Topstarr]

all are good points....let the Northwestern union expose itself in what it brings as in good or BAD to the University.

 

[doc longhorn]

They are being compensated close to a 1/2 million for their 5 years on campus.
Tuition, room, meals, medical, nutritionists, personal training, tutors, travel to away games and bowl games, etc.

You missed my point entirely. It doesn't matter if their scholarship is worth a million dollars a day. By participating in college sports their available personal time is dictated by their spendable income. Without money, they are virtually a prisoner to the regimen of the scholarship - usually from 5:00 AM to 7:00 PM - 7 days a week.

As a college kid, would this appeal to you? Especially for 4-5 straight years? Hell, would it appeal to you as an adult?

Be realistic, these kids need a college life beyond sports - which consumes most of their time anyway.

All this being said, I am totally against a union of players. That's a situation of the inmates running the asylum. Can't happen.

 

[Davharjac]

They are being compensated close to a 1/2 million for their 5 years on campus.
Tuition, room, meals, medical, nutritionists, personal training, tutors, travel to away games and bowl games, etc.

The idea that you can factor in travel and personal training is ridiculous to me...of course "travel" and "personal training" is paid for...there would be no travel or PT if there were no student ath to represent the school..

 

[Davharjac]

You missed my point entirely. It doesn't matter if their scholarship is worth a million dollars a day. By participating in college sports their available personal time is dictated by their spendable income. Without money, they are virtually a prisoner to the regimen of the scholarship - usually from 5:00 AM to 7:00 PM - 7 days a week.
As a college kid, would this appeal to you? Especially for 4-5 straight years? Hell, would it appeal to you as an adult?

Be realistic, these kids need a college life beyond sports - which consumes most of their time anyway.

All this being said, I am totally against a union of players. That's a situation of the inmates running the asylum. Can't happen.

As a former student ath I agree with your take. I think there should be a set amount of stipend for all sports and all players. They money should come from athletic revenue from TV contracts, meaning NO BOOSTERS..or BMDs, or whatever you want to call them...contribute to the fund. I very well understand the idea of how much a scholarship is worth, but, it's really hard to describe how much playing a sport, especially football dominates your life..and not just in season, off season as well..summers too. I'm not trying to create a feeling of "poor guys w scholarships", no it freaking rocks, but it's beyond frustrating when someone with little actual knowledge about the everyday life of a student ath complain about how good they have it, and how greedy they are. Just last night my lovely gf and I were talking about this topic, she was a "normal" student, and she argued more or less that normal students don't get paid for making high marks in school and raising the overall prestige of the university..and while it was a valid stand, I countered w when ESPN is willing to pay 100's of million of cold hard cash to televise you taking an exam or what have you, then yes...The TV money paid to the major conf is in such excess that they could afford to provide more assistance to the actual product on the field...and yes not every program can afford this measure...that is why there is a need for a new division..I am not for unionizing the sport, I doubt that the aths at N'western are actually expecting that as an outcome, what they are doing is actually getting the ball rolling.

 

[texasdobbs]

Remember due to tittle 1(I think that's what it is called) women athletes will get the same benefits as the men... not that there is anything wrong with that...

 

[doc longhorn]

As a former student ath I agree with your take. I think there should be a set amount of stipend for all sports and all players. They money should come from athletic revenue from TV contracts, meaning NO BOOSTERS..or BMDs, or whatever you want to call them...contribute to the fund. I very well understand the idea of how much a scholarship is worth, but, it's really hard to describe how much playing a sport, especially football dominates your life..and not just in season, off season as well..summers too. I'm not trying to create a feeling of "poor guys w scholarships", no it freaking rocks, but it's beyond frustrating when someone with little actual knowledge about the everyday life of a student ath complain about how good they have it, and how greedy they are. Just last night my lovely gf and I were talking about this topic, she was a "normal" student, and she argued more or less that normal students don't get paid for making high marks in school and raising the overall prestige of the university..and while it was a valid stand, I countered w when ESPN is willing to pay 100's of million of cold hard cash to televise you taking an exam or what have you, then yes...The TV money paid to the major conf is in such excess that they could afford to provide more assistance to the actual product on the field...and yes not every program can afford this measure...that is why there is a need for a new division..I am not for unionizing the sport, I doubt that the aths at N'western are actually expecting that as an outcome, what they are doing is actually getting the ball rolling.

Yes, I understand the dilemma of being an athlete with no money. I think what some people get upset about is they think the athlete does not appreciate the value of the scholarship and they think that value should be good enough. I think a good way to look at this would be your daughter - that you will pay for her tuition, books, dorm food and room. Because you want her to apply herself and spend all her time studying, she cannot work part time either. She gets no spending money as the free education and room and board should be good enough for her. See, this simply is not right and would not work anyway.

On the flip side, however, that scholarship DOES have huge value and if the fans and sponsers weren't paying the school, there would be no scholarship, room and board and platform to display your skills for the NFL available to the potential recruit at all. So see, this swings both ways.

So it really comes down to the value of the stipend, IMO. How much should it be for a full ride schollie and how much for a partial? I, personally, think that could be decided by auditing how much time is required to fulfill the requirements of the schollie.

What worries me about Strongs policy of living in the dorm is how will that affect the athlete that depended on the difference in the allowance the school gave him for living off campus. This is going to be a problem, I'm afraid.

 

[Chris Flanagan]

I do agree that they do get something in return for their services but some student athletes do need more to get by and have some money for entertainment purposes like we all do.

But I do believe they should have some established rights just like workers should. A right to negotiate options for themselves. They should have the option of either taking a scholarship or take a salary in the value of their scholarships.

I don't agree with the NCAA telling student athletes who built a brand while on scholarship that they deserve none of the money in sales from that brand. That I don't think is okay.

Right now, they don't have any established rights. They should at least have established rights or colleges will continue to exploit them without recourse.

 

[NLeininger]

The idea that you can factor in travel and personal training is ridiculous to me...of course "travel" and "personal training" is paid for...there would be no travel or PT if there were no student ath to represent the school..

So then make the athlete pay for it. If you to pay athlete, then make everything they get as a perk for being an athlete a bill. Just like every other student deals with. If they aren't living up to their employment they get terminated, this is the type of system you want to set up, because it would be fair.