Crossfire with McPhaul - 03/19/2014

[Sirhornsalot]

Sumlin has high school aged kids. He doesn't want to move them again.
Also, he likes his current job and isn't looking for a new one. The NFL was more of a threat than USC was.

If A&M is still winning when his kids are out of high school then I can see him jumping to the NFL.

In the meantime he's content here.

Wish I could post the link with the blow-by-blow that went down between Sumlin and Haden from our USC friends. Extremely well done with tons of details and supporting evidence/timing.

You don't practically tackle someone over a job because you're content in CS.

 

[doc longhorn]

Not name dropping, that is the source, and considering he has been with the AD for a long time, he would know more than anybody. I don't just randomly call him anytime, but he is an old family friend (dad's cousin) and I talked to him about this the week that it came out at a tailgate. That is why I am so adamant about this subject, all the other people I talk to I take with a grain of salt "(ones with rumors about boosters paying/ bidding war, who BTW matched what Mr. Thornton said), but John is a good man and everything he told me matched what happened i.e. contract amount, length, buyout, and timing of the release of the contract. I don't like the FOB talk, because if the guy is not willing to say this stuff with his name on it (especially stuff with serious implications) then he shouldn't say it all.

Mike, I believe you and I appreciate you coming forth with your source of info. I do not know nor am I conversant with with your 2nd cousin. I AM familiar with his reputation and it sounds as if he is a lot smarter than all of us put together.

I, on the other hand hand, am very aware of McPhauls sources and I can assure you they, also, have impeccable credentials and no motivation or need to lie.

So there we have it - two unimpeachable sources at loggerheads. Maybe something was lost between the lip and the tongue?

 

[coolhorn]

Clemson
That's speculation from a TV network source here in Atlanta.

Just spitballing here, but if there is anything to the Clemson rumor, them and Central Florida would make nice adds, and IF Clemson's really interested, it might stir the pot with some other ACC football schools too.

 

[lahorns]

Well that will certainly make this coming week a little longer. I will be interested in hearing his take on spring practice.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Clemson
That's speculation from a TV network source here in Atlanta.

It wouldn't surprise me if both Clemson and Florida State were interested in taking another look at the Big 12. Check out their Atlantic Division in the ACC; Syracuse? BC? Wake Forest? Zzzzzz

Boston College Eagles

Clemson Tigers

Florida St. Seminoles

Louisville Cardinals

N.C. State Wolfpack

Syracuse Orange

Wake Forest Demon Deacons

The Big 12 can offer them placement in a division with UT and OU which will instantly make their schedules better! Of course, the challenge for Bowlsby is selling the other TX schools on not being aligned with UT. Maybe TCU gets left out?

Right now, FSU & Clemson make less TV money than Iowa State because ABC/ESPN owns all of the ACC's rights. Think about that. Swofford's addition of Notre Dame part-time may not have pacified them.

Stay tuned.

 

[doc longhorn]

Just spitballing here, but if there is anything to the Clemson rumor, them and Central Florida would make nice adds, and IF Clemson's really interested, it might stir the pot with some other ACC football schools too.

You and I cussed and discussed this some time ago. If you remember, there were really only two individuals that blocked FSU from coming to the Big 12 - Deloss Dodds and the president of FSU. Both of these individuals are now gone.

The Big 12, for the most part, were all for FSU joining. And for the most part I mean OU. The FSU BOR were 100% in as well. In fact, one of their regents actually made a trip to Dallas for discussions about it. Or so the rumor went.

Dodds, like the FSU pres, was adamantly against it (he loved the idea of a 10 team conference - $$$). He is a crafty old bastard and I am convinced he threw up Notre Dame as a ploy to get OU and the rest of the Big 12 in line with him.

The ACC has a GOR contract, but I am unclear on how this one is structured. I'm told it is nothing like the one the Big 12 has and there are "loop holes" that would enable a team to escape it. But I really don't know this - maybe one of the lawyers on here has an idea?

I HAVE heard one of the ACC teams still has a crush on the Big 12. I wonder who it could be - hmmmmmm?

 

[Embrey]

Not name dropping, that is the source, and considering he has been with the AD for a long time, he would know more than anybody. I don't just randomly call him anytime, but he is an old family friend (dad's cousin) and I talked to him about this the week that it came out at a tailgate. That is why I am so adamant about this subject, all the other people I talk to I take with a grain of salt "(ones with rumors about boosters paying/ bidding war, who BTW matched what Mr. Thornton said), but John is a good man and everything he told me matched what happened i.e. contract amount, length, buyout, and timing of the release of the contract. I don't like the FOB talk, because if the guy is not willing to say this stuff with his name on it (especially stuff with serious implications) then he shouldn't say it all.

Mike, if you are so confident that there is no wrongdoing then let it go. If it all was generated from some LSU bulletin board and it has been debunked, let it go. Recruiting season is over. Reply back and I am going to have to believe that thou doth protesteth too much.

 

[Embrey]

Come on McPhaul, haven't you learned anything from Terry Bradshaw over the years? It is spelled Clampson

 

[UTPhil2006]

Clemson would be awesome. Especially for baseball.

 

[Nakona Horn]

I wonder if the Maryland exit fee settlement will spur another conversation.

FSU was a faint possibility but Clemson I think is a total longshot. They might have one or two important people unhappy in the ACC but the significant majority of Clemson stakeholders, Regents, Big Cigars etc, LOVE the ACC. It's tradition and comforting for them. Everyone knows the ACC has it's weak points (TV contract, schedule, ran by UNC and Duke) but not enough to get up and leave the conference. Notre Dame being brought into the fold was the saving grace.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

You and I cussed and discussed this some time ago. If you remember, there were really only two individuals that blocked FSU from coming to the Big 12 - Deloss Dodds and the president of FSU. Both of these individuals are now gone.
The Big 12, for the most part, were all for FSU joining. And for the most part I mean OU. The FSU BOR were 100% in as well. In fact, one of their regents actually made a trip to Dallas for discussions about it. Or so the rumor went.

Dodds, like the FSU pres, was adamantly against it (he loved the idea of a 10 team conference - $$$). He is a crafty old bastard and I am convinced he threw up Notre Dame as a ploy to get OU and the rest of the Big 12 in line with him.

The ACC has a GOR contract, but I am unclear on how this one is structured. I'm told it is nothing like the one the Big 12 has and there are "loop holes" that would enable a team to escape it. But I really don't know this - maybe one of the lawyers on here has an idea?

I HAVE heard one of the ACC teams still has a crush on the Big 12. I wonder who it could be - hmmmmmm?

Only two schools didn't sign the ACC's GoR with the punitive (and ridiculous) buy-out clause of $50M; FSU and Maryland. I believe FSU has signed it since Notre Dame joined as a part-timer, but haven't confirmed.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what loopholes (if any) may exist in the ACC's GoR. But, I suspect the UMD lawsuit with the ACC will have an impact on FSU's next move. Perhaps its validity will be compromised if UMD pays a significantly lower exit fee?

Realignment ain't over yet. Bowlsby will only add teams if they help grow the Big 12 TV money pie. FSU and Clemson additions can. Cincinnati and UCF? Probably not.

 

[doc longhorn]

I wonder if the Maryland exit fee settlement will spur another conversation.
FSU was a faint possibility but Clemson I think is a total longshot. They might have one or two important people unhappy in the ACC but the significant majority of Clemson stakeholders, Regents, Big Cigars etc, LOVE the ACC. It's tradition and comforting for them. Everyone knows the ACC has it's weak points (TV contract, schedule, ran by UNC and Duke) but not enough to get up and leave the conference. Notre Dame being brought into the fold was the saving grace.

The problem with the ACC was that it was dominated by basketball schools, and it still is. The BB schools made the decisions for the conference and hence the football schools could go pack sand. Schools, like FSU, were getting financially screwed. They looked at other conferences and saw what their members were making and said The Big 12 looks mighty good$$$. So the main reason FSU and Clemson stayed is because of the new contract - not necessarily ND. And, by-the-way, the new ACC contract STILL does not provide its members with the money the Big 12 makes.

Remember this - should conference realignment raise its ugly head again. It's always about the money. End of story.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Remember this - should conference realignment raise its ugly head again. It's always about the money. End of story.

True dat.

I have a serious man-crush on FSU and would love to add them to the Big 12. Any combination with the 'Noles will do; Clemson, Miami, GaTech, UCF...I don't care. How great will it be to play home & homes with those bad boys? Visits to Tallahassee and the Gulf Coast will be fun, too.

 

[DocHorn]

Clemson
That's speculation from a TV network source here in Atlanta.

I could see the Big 12 going after Clemson, Ga Tech, and maybe Pitt ( right next to WVU) Throw in Central Florida, and it would make for a nice 14 team conference

They either get aggressive and expand, or die. With the way we are trying to recruit Florida, I would love to see a florida school in the mix, and getting Clemson and ga Tech would allow inroads into SEC country for recruiting.

 

[Nakona Horn]

I could see the Big 12 going after Clemson, Ga Tech, and maybe Pitt ( right next to WVU) Throw in Central Florida, and it would make for a nice 14 team conference
They either get aggressive and expand, or die. With the way we are trying to recruit Florida, I would love to see a florida school in the mix, and getting Clemson and ga Tech would allow inroads into SEC country for recruiting.

Gtech would laugh the Big 12 out of the room in this scenario.

Put yourself in the shoes of the President or Regent at Gtech. How the HELL are you going to sell a move to the Big 12?!? Especially if presidents and Regents from other ACC schools start leaning on you to stay.

Gtech to the Big 12 is a pipe dream IMO.

 

[Nakona Horn]

Only two schools didn't sign the ACC's GoR with the punitive (and ridiculous) buy-out clause of $50M; FSU and Maryland. I believe FSU has signed it since Notre Dame joined as a part-timer, but haven't confirmed.
I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what loopholes (if any) may exist in the ACC's GoR. But, I suspect the UMD lawsuit with the ACC will have an impact on FSU's next move. Perhaps its validity will be compromised if UMD pays a significantly lower exit fee?

Realignment ain't over yet. Bowlsby will only add teams if they help grow the Big 12 TV money pie. FSU and Clemson additions can. Cincinnati and UCF? Probably not.

The Big 12 actually helped Swofford and the ACC design the GOR document. I think you can find the Big 12's online somewhere. It's four pages and very basic. IE ambiguous. It pretty much invites lawyers to challenge it and spend a ridiculous amount of time and money trying to find ways out of it. To date, no school has left a conference that had a GOR in place so there's no precedent of how easy or difficult this actually is. Also, contrary to popular belief, there are no "clauses" or special provisions that allow UT an easy "out".

I've read blogs and posts from attorney's discussing the GOR and it's as close to ironclad as you can get in regards to conference affiliation scenarios. The majority of the case history re GOR's are in the music and entertainment history with the significant majority of the case history favoring the rights holder. For example, Warner Brothers owns the rights to the Carlton Dance from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. The actor cannot make money off his signature dance b/c WB owns the rights. Stuff like that.

 

[DocHorn]

Gtech would laugh the Big 12 out of the room in this scenario.
Put yourself in the shoes of the President or Regent at Gtech. How the HELL are you going to sell a move to the Big 12?!? Especially if presidents and Regents from other ACC schools start leaning on you to stay.

Gtech to the Big 12 is a pipe dream IMO.

I understand the position. I'm not saying its likely. But to me, gaTech is mainly a football first school and most of the rest of the ACC is Basketball first, except Clemson, Miami, Pitt, and FSU. I could see the football first schools looking around, but i have no idea how realistic it is given the punishments for leaving, unless of course the Maryland lawsuit is successful.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

The Big 12 actually helped Swofford and the ACC design the GOR document. I think you can find the Big 12's online somewhere. It's four pages and very basic. IE ambiguous. It pretty much invites lawyers to challenge it and spend a ridiculous amount of time and money trying to find ways out of it. To date, no school has left a conference that had a GOR in place so there's no precedent of how easy or difficult this actually is. Also, contrary to popular belief, there are no "clauses" or special provisions that allow UT an easy "out".
I've read blogs and posts from attorney's discussing the GOR and it's as close to ironclad as you can get in regards to conference affiliation scenarios. The majority of the case history re GOR's are in the music and entertainment history with the significant majority of the case history favoring the rights holder. For example, Warner Brothers owns the rights to the Carlton Dance from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. The actor cannot make money off his signature dance b/c WB owns the rights. Stuff like that.

I wonder if UMD ever signed the ACC's GoR? My guess is "no", since they were already working behind the scenes on a B1G invitation. It will be interesting to see what their departure costs.

 

[doc longhorn]

Sumlin has high school aged kids. He doesn't want to move them again.
Also, he likes his current job and isn't looking for a new one. The NFL was more of a threat than USC was.

If A&M is still winning when his kids are out of high school then I can see him jumping to the NFL.

In the meantime he's content here.

LOL. Well, Joe, he had those same HS kids when he moved from Houston to CS - didn't seem to bother him then. But, I agree with you - the NFL was, perhaps, the biggest threat. However, the way I actually heard it was Sumlin was pursuing the NFL - not the other way around. There was some interest, but his lack of big time HC football experience was a detriment. Maybe if he can show some head coaching maturity and longevity at A&M the interest will pick up. At least more than it has.

I disagree with the contentment in CS, however. Do you still live there because you love it so much?

 

[doc longhorn]

The Big 12 actually helped Swofford and the ACC design the GOR document. I think you can find the Big 12's online somewhere. It's four pages and very basic. IE ambiguous. It pretty much invites lawyers to challenge it and spend a ridiculous amount of time and money trying to find ways out of it. To date, no school has left a conference that had a GOR in place so there's no precedent of how easy or difficult this actually is. Also, contrary to popular belief, there are no "clauses" or special provisions that allow UT an easy "out".
I've read blogs and posts from attorney's discussing the GOR and it's as close to ironclad as you can get in regards to conference affiliation scenarios. The majority of the case history re GOR's are in the music and entertainment history with the significant majority of the case history favoring the rights holder. For example, Warner Brothers owns the rights to the Carlton Dance from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. The actor cannot make money off his signature dance b/c WB owns the rights. Stuff like that.

Very interesting about the music industry. I was unaware of that.

I think the big pitfall of the GOR, for those schools desiring to leave, is losing their 3rd tier TV rights - the ownership of which belongs to the conference. I can see why UT would be adverse to that - LHN and all. In the case of the ACC there is also a punitive damage amount of $50 M. Both the 3rd tier rights and THAT would be hard to swallow - even for UT.

As far as Big 12 expansion - has everyone forgotten what Bowlsby said? "Unless there is a definite upgrade ($) to the conference, we won't expand just for expansions sake".

Assuming they were available, what teams would be an upgrade to the Big 12?

ACC

FSU

Clemson

Big East

Louisville

The State of Florida

UCF

I left Miami out because, really, what do they bring to the table? They are no better than U of H as far as their fan support. Hell, they can't even fill a high school stadium for their spring game. That's sad.