Best UT Class Ever?

[Royal 60]

Gosh I'm sorry didn't realize to be considered you had to have black players !! Results  Results Results 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Gosh I'm sorry didn't realize to be considered you had to have black players !! Results  Results Results 

No, competition, competition, competition.

When you withhold half the talent pool, its tough to make the argument although I know some still will try.

Otherwise, record alone we can go to AAA ball and find better records and call them king of all time.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Okay, I guessed I missed where it said in the original post that this discussion was limited only to teams that had black players and played against teams that had black players 

Just messing with you SHA, all in fun.

But you still can't find a class with better results 

BTW, the Worster class included 2 guys I went to school with in Sherman, Mike Dean and Greg Ploetz. Mike was the 190 lb OG who went up against Mike McKoy the All-American 270 lb DT from Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl game. And played well. 

Thats hilarious. At my 3A high school in 1980, we thought we were small because we had 190 pd OLs. 

But that was the size of OLs back in the day. Former Cowboy coach Jimmy Johnson was an OL at Arkansas, but barely weighed 200 lbs.

Thats why people like McKoy and Bob Lilly were huge in that day. 6'4, 270 was a really big lineman back then.

As Dean showed, its not the size of the dog, but the fight in the dog.

 

[java]

Robert Timmons did make it to campus. Mary Redding tried to give him the ‘family’ support he needed, but he just couldn’t overcome the difficult upbringing he had, and he left the Program. 

She was, in effect, the team Mom, and a valuable asset. 

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Thats hilarious. At my 3A high school in 1980, we thought we were small because we had 190 pd OLs. 

But that was the size of OLs back in the day. Former Cowboy coach Jimmy Johnson was an OL at Arkansas, but barely weighed 200 lbs.

Thats why people like McKoy and Bob Lilly were huge in that day. 6'4, 270 was a really big lineman back then.

As McKoy showed, its not the size of the dog, but the fight in the dog.

Yea, in the book, Horns, Hogs, and Nixon, it recounts that the first play Texas run was for 19 yards behind Dean. Says as both Dean and McCoy are laying on the ground, Bobby Wuensch comes over, grabs McCoy by the facemask and tells him "Dean's gonna whip your ass all day long".  And Worster says when they watched game film later that they laughed their asses off at McCoy and that Dean whipped his ass 75% of the time.

Great stuff. And, best of all, I was there in person at the game. 

 

[Daniel Seahorn]

IMO, we could be venturing into territory whereby this current class can be compared favorably to the best UT class ever.

As far as I know, the Chris Simms class has been widely regarded as our best ever. If we land White, Ossai, Waddle, etc., it might be worth a comparison.

We can't make the complete comparison yet, but we can start. 

Daniel, do you have a good idea of what we can use as a barometer against the two? Total points? Stars?

Well for now I guess you can compare star averages and things of that nature for now. I’d try seeing if 247 has rankings that go back that far and go from there. Obviously we won’t truly know how this class stacks up for a few years, but this is a way to get the discussion going.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Maybe I am missing the point but comparing the current class with past classes and achievements is futile. 

The current class has not achieved anything yet, so calling it the best class ever is premature.

Its just a class right now. And they rank them, so yes, you can judge right now. They are on an equal playing field.

What you can't do is look back and see who did something and who dropped out of school, etc., So there's also a hindsight version of this conversation that will have to wait a few years.

 

[jaysebring]

Thats hilarious. At my 3A high school in 1980, we thought we were small because we had 190 pd OLs. 

But that was the size of OLs back in the day. Former Cowboy coach Jimmy Johnson was an OL at Arkansas, but barely weighed 200 lbs.

Thats why people like McKoy and Bob Lilly were huge in that day. 6'4, 270 was a really big lineman back then.

As Dean showed, its not the size of the dog, but the fight in the dog.

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

 

[dillohorn]

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

Total crap.

 

[DBut82]

If we're gonna compare recruiting classes then the only way to keep it somewhat subjective is to compare them based on the class rank prior to any of the kids ever stepping foot on campus.  Start with the overall class rank, then go to number of 5*, 4*, 3* etc.  How certain individuals performed is irrelevant considering this class hasn't made it to campus.  If we want to compare classes based on how the classes performed on the field, we have to wait a minimum of 3 years before we can even speak on this class...

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Total crap.

I must not be reading what he said the way you are.

What did he say that was "total crap"?

 

[North Texas Golfer]

If we're gonna compare recruiting classes then the only way to keep it somewhat subjective is to compare them based on the class rank prior to any of the kids ever stepping foot on campus.  Start with the overall class rank, then go to number of 5*, 4*, 3* etc.  How certain individuals performed is irrelevant considering this class hasn't made it to campus.  If we want to compare classes based on how the classes performed on the field, we have to wait a minimum of 3 years before we can even speak on this class...

Does anyone know when the ranking of recruiting classes begin?

 

[primal defense]

Does anyone know when the ranking of recruiting classes begin?

Rivals started in 2002.

https://texas.rivals.com/commitments/football/2002

 

[Sirhornsalot]

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

Thats true, so it is what it is. Its unfortunate.

Daingerfield was and still is a high school with about a 50-50 white/black population. I never knew any different in my time in school. I never attended an all-white school.

But since you brought it up – Daingerfield integrated with the black high school there (JJ Rhoads High School) in 1967, putting blacks and whites in the same classrooms for the first time in Daingerfield.

They won their first state championship ever the very next football season. Who did they beat in the state championship? The all-black Lufkin Dunbar school.

Whether in the military or a football team or anywhere else, we are best when we can present the best of all of us.

 

[jaysebring]

Thats true, so it is what it is. Its unfortunate.

Daingerfield was and still is a high school with about a 50-50 white/black population. I never knew any different in my time in school. I never attended an all-white school.

But since you brought it up – Daingerfield integrated with the black high school there (JJ Rhoads High School) in 1967, putting blacks and whites in the same classrooms for the first time in Daingerfield.

They won their first state championship ever the very next football season. Who did they beat in the state championship? The all-black Lufkin Dunbar school.

Whether in the military or a football team or anywhere else, we are best when we can present the best of all of us.

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with you and I detest racism with a passion and it's embarrassing that Texas was the last all white national champions. 

But, it is what it is as you said. That all white team just beat everyone they played and that's not their fault that they played in the 1960s in the south. They were still as good as it got in the time period. 

Whether they would have beaten an integrated Penn State, or Ohio State we will never know. Our team was good, but we never make it to #1 if Michigan didn't pull off the upset of the century in 1969. The Buckeyes were the defending national champs with the Super Sophomores and they were rolling in 1969 with a team that everyone said was even better. Without Michigan, the game in Arkansas doesn't mean that much nationally. 

Oh, and by the way, Sir Hornsalot, thanks for this post. My favorite subject is recruiting and I love the old school stuff as well. I appreciate it. 

 

[jaysebring]

Does anyone know when the ranking of recruiting classes begin?

Recruiting rankings may have started in the late 1970s with a guy named Joe Terranova in Dearborn, Michigan. He put out a recruiting booklet and he ranked the classes. He didn't see everyone play and i never agreed with his lists. 

Our Class in 1980 was ranked about 4th, I believe, by Terranova and we should have been at #1 or #2. He had Georgia, with Herschel Walker ranked 9th and they were an incredible class. 

After Terranova, there were much better recruiting classes including guys like Max Emfinger. He ranked classes and was a little better than the old Terranova booklet. There were others at about the same time. Emfinger had a 900 number that you could call and get updates on your school. I spent many a buck on that 900 number. 

When the internet came along, then Rivals and 247 and so many others came along. 

Sadly, I've been a recruiting geek since 1974 and have blown a lot of money on magazines and 900 numbers. Now, it's mostly free and young guys don't know how great they have it with Hudl and other services. Even though I have had moments of burn out on this stuff, I keep coming back for more and more. 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with you and I detest racism with a passion and it's embarrassing that Texas was the last all white national champions. 

But, it is what it is as you said. That all white team just beat everyone they played and that's not their fault that they played in the 1960s in the south. They were still as good as it got in the time period. 

Whether they would have beaten an integrated Penn State, or Ohio State we will never know. Our team was good, but we never make it to #1 if Michigan didn't pull off the upset of the century in 1969. The Buckeyes were the defending national champs with the Super Sophomores and they were rolling in 1969 with a team that everyone said was even better. Without Michigan, the game in Arkansas doesn't mean that much nationally. 

Oh, and by the way, Sir Hornsalot, thanks for this post. My favorite subject is recruiting and I love the old school stuff as well. I appreciate it. 

There's no blame or fault to be put on that team. Those players just did what they thought they were supposed to do – go to school and play ball. They beat the teams that were on their schedule. You can't ask anything more.

I'm like you, very old school. Your post on recruiting brought back some memories as I remember those early days well. You went back to '80 and further, which is before I got into it. Joe Scarborough (I think is his name) put out a True Orange magazine/newsletter that I used to subscribe to. It was about as good as it got during that time.

The internet made the whole thing explode. Before Rivals came along, we had other sites that were doing it. THEUniversity.com, Hornfans, Hook'em360 were all popular back then. In fact, THEUniversity.com later became what is now OB.

I remember posters like "Magic Loogie" and a few others who were completely dialed in with the inside info. Those were fun times.

We've come a long way since then.

 

[Royal 60]

Let's look back on this topic and see who in the world brought race into this conversation ! 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Let's look back on this topic and see who in the world brought race into this conversation ! 

I did. It would be troubling if I had not. And I spoke up because you can't have the best recruiting class of all time when you had half the pool to choose from.

I also made the same point from the opposite direction. Note that an INTEGRATED Daingerfield high school won state over an all-black Lufkin Dunbar.

Its not rocket science. Divided we are weaker. Together we are stronger.

 

[RunRickyRun]

2002 was the best class.