Lodge to A&M

[Randolph Duke]

i'm a bit confused by the message you are trying to convey.  in your opinion, should we be recruiting the same kinds of kids that sumlin is recruiting, or should we be recruiting the kinds of kids that stanford is recruiting?

he's already a failure in your eyes because he's not recruiting head to head with sumlin?

you denigrate the types of kids sumlin is recruiting as the wrong kinds of kids, yet you denigrate strong for not recruiting (or losing out in recruiting) to sumlin for those same kids.

i guess without seeing something on the field, i'm not ready to call him a failure quite yet.  there are lots of kids out there to recruit.  stanford seems to be able to recruit pretty well, and then produce on the field with good scholar athletes.  nothing wrong in my eyes with going after those types, but yet we see in the headlines on here and on OB every day how we're "losing" the lodge's of the world.

if they're the wrong kinds of kids, then my question is  "so what?"  

i'm not arguing.  just trying to understand.

Sumlin is offering a clear set of expectations - don't worry about classes, take classes online. Don't worry about drug tests, they aren't an issue. Strong is playing guidance counselor and the kids are choosing the easier route. I get it. A lot of kids can't cut it academically and taking the aggy route is their best choice. But Strong isn't killing it with the kids who actually have the potential to be students and can stay out of jail. We aren't winning recruiting battles with Stanford. We aren't winning recruiting battles with anyone, with the exception of the OG we offered yesterday we are fighting with Louisiana Tech and North Texas to get him to come to UT. My point is, what is Charlie Strong doing that seems to indicate he is succeeding at anything? Baylor is kicking our ass for top instate talent. Aggy is crushing us. 

Any kid who is committed to Texas has to be asking himself what all the others see and they missed. I can understand offensive skill positions not wanting to play for Shawn Watson. Personally, I don't even expect Shawn Watson to last the season this fall. He has no business on the UT payroll. But why isn't Charlie Strong killing in on defensive recruits? It seems none of the kids with potential wants to risk playing for Charlie Strong. 

 

[Randolph Duke]

So are some of you guys thinking that hiring a guy with shady recruiting tactics would have been better than Strong?

You don't have to have shady recruiting tactics if you can sell the recruits on your system and convince them you give them a good shot at playing at the next level. What Charlie Strong is selling to the top players is getting rejected almost every time. None of the kids believes Charlie can do what he says he can do. If they believed him, they would sign up to play for him. It's that simple. They aren't buying what he is selling. 

 

[texasdobbs]

I don't think I have to convert anyone just look at the top 25 player list in Texas and see where they're going. Guess what its not UT

I have seen the list.. however I also looked at the calendar and it says June 19th and the first game is August 30 and signing day is February 2015...

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Any kid who is committed to Texas has to be asking himself what all the others see and they missed. I can understand offensive skill positions not wanting to play for Shawn Watson. Personally, I don't even expect Shawn Watson to last the season this fall. He has no business on the UT payroll. But why isn't Charlie Strong killing in on defensive recruits? It seems none of the kids with potential wants to risk playing for Charlie Strong. 

Agree with your concerns about Shawn Watson and his offense.  It doesn't appear to have an identity yet and will be very dependent on David Ash's health.  Could be a major problem unless Jerrod Heard is a world-beater as a freshman.

I did like what I saw on defense, though.  

 

[Sejjr]

Could not disagree more with this thread. It reeks of paranoia and ignorance. Charlie Strong is doing just fine so far in recruiting, and to say that he deserves a D- right now is just ridiculous. As has been the case for months, EVERYTHING depends on what happens on the field this season. Aggy is trading on hype and doing very well in recruiting right now. This is not a new development. They just put 3 first rounders in the NFL and have their name attached to the biggest name in football in Manziel. OF COURSE they are recruiting better today than a Texas team that was idiotically allowed to flounder and fade into irrelevance under Mack Brown. The fact remains, there are months left in this recruiting cycle and this staff is doing as good as anyone could under the current circumstances. Aggy will lose at least 4 games again this year, possibly 5 or 6, and their hype-train will come to a crashing halt. They couldn't even win their division with the best player in their "storied" history. This is as good as it will get for a$m. They are at their pinnacle. I guarantee you that Strong will flip at least 1 or 2 recruits before signing day. November will look VERY different than June.

 

[SanTexHorn]

I posted this in the recruiting thread, but I will repost over here:

Sumlin seems to be running a post-O'Bannon program, betting the NCAA's control on amateurism is going to end sooner, as opposed to later. Bring in talented kids who don't have a shot at actually getting a degree and let them take online blowoff classes to stay eligible, ignore failed drug tests and consider the ones who end up in jail as a cost of doing business. If the amateurism rules get tossed, players aren't going to have to worry about classes and are no longer going to be drug tested. The rules Strong is applying seem to be for a team of the past, not of the present or the future.

As it stands now, I have the same opinion of most of the decent high school football talent out there and I give the Charlie Strong experiment a stinking D-.

I get it he wants to say he cares about the kids and that is why he has the rules he does. Great. He was hired to be the football coach, not a $5 mil/yr guidance counselor. The argument we need to write off the next few seasons and wait until the fall of 2017 to judge the wisdom of hiring Coach Strong (after he has had a year to coach up his 2016 recruit class) isn't going to fly. He can't compete in recruiting, I don't believe in Shawn Watson as the offensive genius and I'm wondering when some one is going to publicly point out to Charlie Strong he seems to be foundering so we can see if he even realizes the situation he seems to be in. 

I hope I am pleasantly surprised, but as it stands now, the hiring of Charlie Strong deserves a failing grade and has all the signs of a huge mistake. The recruits aren't buying what he is selling.

Damn, give the man a chance to coach a game or 3 before crucifying him!  Strong's recruiting has not been exceptional, but it is no worse than Mack Brown did over the last 3-4 years. Mack got the 4 & 5 star players, but many of them did not fit the offense Texas was running.  How many times over the last 5-6 years have you heard people bitching that Texas has not been developing the talent they had?  Strong had 2 & 3 star talent for the most part at Louisville, and they would have kicked the shit out of Texas last year.  Coach Strong wasn't my first choice as the HC at Texas, but he deserves at least a full season to show what he can do.  My guess is Texas will be a much better team than they were last year or the start of this year.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Damn, give the man a chance to coach a game or 3 before crucifying him!  Strong's recruiting has not been exceptional, but it is no worse than Mack Brown did over the last 3-4 years. Mack got the 4 & 5 star players, but many of them did not fit the offense Texas was running.  How many times over the last 5-6 years have you heard people bitching that Texas has not been developing the talent they had?  Strong had 2 & 3 star talent for the most part at Louisville, and they would have kicked the shit out of Texas last year.  Coach Strong wasn't my first choice as the HC at Texas, but he deserves at least a full season to show what he can do.  My guess is Texas will be a much better team than they were last year or the start of this year.

Its just getting old that the head coach at the University of Texas seems to be getting laughed at by an endless stream of 17 year olds and is appearing totally inept at recruiting. $5 mil/year isn't supposed to deliver a coach who can't recruit and who people are already starting to make excuses for. And the best people have to offer is that we only have to write off his first two recruiting classes because by 2016, he should have his act together. This should not have to have been our first choice in the direction the program should go. 

Like I said earlier, I understand why no offensive talent other than linemen want to play for Texas until the Shawn Watson experiment gets exposed and we get a coordinator, but I just can't understand why Charlie Strong can't recruit defensive talent and Kevin Sumlin can. 

And I get that Strong coached up lesser players at Louisville, but he coached up players to beat U of H, UConn, Eastern Kentucky and Memphis. They aren't on our schedule. We don't need a coach at Texas to build a team capable of beating Memphis. 

I'm just tired of the excuses needed to explain why the head coach at Texas keeps falling short of expectations.

 

[armadillo slim]

well, with all due respect to all concerned here, put me down on the side that i like what i see so far and really want to wait and give the guy a fair shot.  and not just a one year shot either.

that said, the whole college sports world could be turned on its ear here very shortly, by the various things going on (o'bannon, realignment, the TV suit, etc) so its very hard to tell what is going to happen going forward with college sports.  a sea change is in store, and probably very quickly.  the status quo ain't gonna be the status quo much longer and my crystal ball is so cloudy right now i have no idea what's going to happen.

i realize its just an old farts lament, but i'm really glad i'm old enough to be able to remember games on the radio, games of the week, kern tips, amateur sports when they were still played by amateurs and all the rest.  The TV age gave us a lot of advantages, but honestly, i think i was happier when i went to sleep at night listening to a longhorn game on my transistor radio while i pretended to be asleep.

 

[pringlelake]

Good thread. I enjoy reading and considering arguments on both sides of the coin. Speaking of coins, I'm of the opinion that's about the best one can do for predicting the future of football under the leadership of Charlie. Flip a coin.

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

Good points here by all. I do believe everyone here wants UT to win & want what is best for our beloved university. However I think were the divide occurs is some of us expect results now with no excuses while others are willing to give it time due to perceived issues of the current state of the situation. 

 

[streettopeschel]

Good points here by all. I do believe everyone here wants UT to win & want what is best for our beloved university. However I think were the divide occurs is some of us expect results now with no excuses while others are willing to give it time due to perceived issues of the current state of the situation. 

that's the crux of the disagreement i have with your arguments. there ARE no measurable results to judge at this point. The first game is 2 1/2 months away. signing day is 8 months away and recruits have been known to change their mind.

and 'give it time'...as opposed to what? fire him now because non-binding commitments aren't going your way?

 

[Sejjr]

Its just getting old that the head coach at the University of Texas seems to be getting laughed at by an endless stream of 17 year olds and is appearing totally inept at recruiting. $5 mil/year isn't supposed to deliver a coach who can't recruit and who people are already starting to make excuses for. And the best people have to offer is that we only have to write off his first two recruiting classes because by 2016, he should have his act together. This should not have to have been our first choice in the direction the program should go. 

Like I said earlier, I understand why no offensive talent other than linemen want to play for Texas until the Shawn Watson experiment gets exposed and we get a coordinator, but I just can't understand why Charlie Strong can't recruit defensive talent and Kevin Sumlin can. 

And I get that Strong coached up lesser players at Louisville, but he coached up players to beat U of H, UConn, Eastern Kentucky and Memphis. They aren't on our schedule. We don't need a coach at Texas to build a team capable of beating Memphis. 

I'm just tired of the excuses needed to explain why the head coach at Texas keeps falling short of expectations.

I am getting even more tired of posts like this. You keep acting like you have the ear of all these 17 year olds who are running around trashing Charlie Strong and then giggling about how great Kevin Sumlin is. I'm sorry, but it just isn't accurate. If you want to complain about the false perception that a$m is the "IT" school in Texas, then I am right there with you. I hate losing recruits to aggy as much as anyone, but the fact is, many of us saw this coming like a freight train 2 years ago, when it was painfully clear Mack had to go (had we made the move when we should have, Charlie Strong would have been the likely choice then as well). Why is any of this so surprising to you? a$m caught lightning in a bottle with Manziel winning the Heisman, and they are trading on that hype. It is nothing more than that, and these kids are buying into Sumlin right now, despite his mediocre coaching record on the field. When aggy underachieves yet again, the trend will start to turn. 

There are still many talented recruits left on the board, and many of them look like they will wait this out and see what a difference Charlie Strong will make for Texas Football this season. This is still the biggest brand in College Sports and it is still the flagship program in the state. I have read many, many glowing reports from recruits in regards to Strong, his recruiting prowess,  The Program, and even your personal whipping boy, Shawn Watson. Numerous top QBs are very impressed with him, and for good reason. Acting like he is an albatross at this point is just ridiculous, and has zero basis in fact.

Charlie Strong is a good recruiter, has put together a great staff, and is working tirelessly to fix the massive pile of issues he inherited, starting with accountability and toughness. The only thing we need to be concerned with is how we perform this season. The rest will take care of itself. 

 

[Randolph Duke]

well, with all due respect to all concerned here, put me down on the side that i like what i see so far and really want to wait and give the guy a fair shot. and not just a one year shot either.

that said, the whole college sports world could be turned on its ear here very shortly, by the various things going on (o'bannon, realignment, the TV suit, etc) so its very hard to tell what is going to happen going forward with college sports. a sea change is in store, and probably very quickly. the status quo ain't gonna be the status quo much longer and my crystal ball is so cloudy right now i have no idea what's going to happen.

i realize its just an old farts lament, but i'm really glad i'm old enough to be able to remember games on the radio, games of the week, kern tips, amateur sports when they were still played by amateurs and all the rest. The TV age gave us a lot of advantages, but honestly, i think i was happier when i went to sleep at night listening to a longhorn game on my transistor radio while i pretended to be asleep.

I will be shocked if the Big 12, Pac, SEC, etc exist 5 years from now. With the death of amateurism and the demise of bundled cable, the economic interests of the broadcasters and the universities are going to be so changed, both sides are going to need to restructure college football along economic considerations instead of along geographic considerations. Scotusblog is expecting the Aereo division by the end of next week. They think it might come out tomorrow. If the court allows the technology is allowed, SECN could be dead before it even goes live. If that happens, Bama, Flat, etc are going to want to monetize their T3 rights. That ain't happening under their current conference structure.

 

[Randolph Duke]

I am getting even more tired of posts like this. You keep acting like you have the ear of all these 17 year olds who are running around trashing Charlie Strong and then giggling about how great Kevin Sumlin is. I'm sorry, but it just isn't accurate. If you want to complain about the false perception that a$m is the "IT" school in Texas, then I am right there with you. I hate losing recruits to aggy as much as anyone, but the fact is, many of us saw this coming like a freight train 2 years ago, when it was painfully clear Mack had to go (had we made the move when we should have, Charlie Strong would have been the likely choice then as well). Why is any of this so surprising to you? a$m caught lightning in a bottle with Manziel winning the Heisman, and they are trading on that hype. It is nothing more than that, and these kids are buying into Sumlin right now, despite his mediocre coaching record on the field. When aggy underachieves yet again, the trend will start to turn.

There are still many talented recruits left on the board, and many of them look like they will wait this out and see what a difference Charlie Strong will make for Texas Football this season. This is still the biggest brand in College Sports and it is still the flagship program in the state. I have read many, many glowing reports from recruits in regards to Strong, his recruiting prowess, The Program, and even your personal whipping boy, Shawn Watson. Numerous top QBs are very impressed with him, and for good reason. Acting like he is an albatross at this point is just ridiculous, and has zero basis in fact.

Charlie Strong is a good recruiter, has put together a great staff, and is working tirelessly to fix the massive pile of issues he inherited, starting with accountability and toughness. The only thing we need to be concerned with is how we perform this season. The rest will take care of itself.

Wide receivers, tight ends are not buying in to what is being sold. We need linebackers and defensive backs. Blaming the poor recruiting on Mack is a stretch, because Charlie's vision is what they aren't buying. We have no choice but to brace and deal with the upcoming season, but as of today, there is Zero evidence Charlie Strong can recruit at this level in this part if the country.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

So far the individuals tasked with judging his performance are resoundingly giving him failing grades. That has to be a huge warning signal. He simply isn't connecting with recruits. It isn't as if he is unknown in Texas. Recruits know full well what he did at Louisville and they are resoundingly unimpressed. How is that not a sign he is not succeeding. If he can't impress the players he thinks he needs to run his system, he can't run his system. I beginning to get concerned whether he can even hold the 2015 class together or if he will get hit with a wave of decommits. 

They saw what he did at Louisville and are resoundingly unimpressed.

But they saw what Sumlin did at Houston and were impressed?

I'm thinking we're far better off with athletes who aren't so retarded as to think this way?

 

[texasdobbs]

They saw what he did at Louisville and are resoundingly unimpressed.

But they saw what Sumlin did at Houston and were impressed?

I'm thinking we're far better off with athletes who aren't so retarded as to think this way?

This made me laugh. .. thanks

 

[Randolph Duke]

They saw what he did at Louisville and are resoundingly unimpressed.

But they saw what Sumlin did at Houston and were impressed?

I'm thinking we're far better off with athletes who aren't so retarded as to think this way?

Sumlin isn't recruiting based on what he did at U of H. Sumlin has been at aggy for two years now.

It isn't about what any recruit saw as much as whether they believe in the coach's vision for the program and whether they think the coach can develop their talents to give them the opportunity to reach their individual goals. Sumlin is getting it done and Charlie Strong is evidently waiting for the last year of his contract in 2017 when he has had time to coach up his spectacular 2016 class. 

How did the University of Texas settle on a coach who was incapable of recruiting the state of Texas?

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Sumlin isn't recruiting based on what he did at U of H. Sumlin has been at aggy for two years now.

It isn't about what any recruit saw as much as whether they believe in the coach's vision for the program and whether they think the coach can develop their talents to give them the opportunity to reach their individual goals. Sumlin is getting it done and Charlie Strong is evidently waiting for the last year of his contract in 2017 when he has had time to coach up his spectacular 2016 class. 

How did the University of Texas settle on a coach who was incapable of recruiting the state of Texas?

So in other words, in two years Strong will be where Sumlin is now or perhaps better?

I base this solely on the fact that LV's results under Strong were more impressive than Houston's results under Sumlin.

How did athletes get any idea whatsoever that Sumlin could develop them during his time at Houston? He barely made any noise there.

I think you're in some sort of pointless panic mode. So far, I'm not buying what you're selling. Instead, I'm wondering why you're sticking your neck out so far on such a brittle little limb. Much of what you're referring to is just hype without substance. Substance always wins in the end. Hype gets exposed.

You talk up Sumlin's ability to recruit defensive stars. I counter with why is their defense the lousiest around? Is that developing talent? I don't think so.

 

[streettopeschel]

Sumlin isn't recruiting based on what he did at U of H. Sumlin has been at aggy for two years now.

It isn't about what any recruit saw as much as whether they believe in the coach's vision for the program and whether they think the coach can develop their talents to give them the opportunity to reach their individual goals. Sumlin is getting it done and Charlie Strong is evidently waiting for the last year of his contract in 2017 when he has had time to coach up his spectacular 2016 class. 

How did the University of Texas settle on a coach who was incapable of recruiting the state of Texas?

now you're just trying too hard. 

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

So in other words, in two years Strong will be where Sumlin is now or perhaps better?

I base this solely on the fact that LV's results under Strong were more impressive than Houston's results under Sumlin.

How did athletes get any idea whatsoever that Sumlin could develop them during his time at Houston? He barely made any noise there.

I think you're in some sort of pointless panic mode. So far, I'm not buying what you're selling. Instead, I'm wondering why you're sticking your neck out so far on such a brittle little limb. Much of what you're referring to is just hype without substance. Substance always wins in the end. Hype gets exposed.

You talk up Sumlin's ability to recruit defensive stars. I counter with why is their defense the lousiest around? Is that developing talent? I don't think so.

Yes aggiy defense has sucked and Louisville had a highly ranked defense yet every top defensive recruit in Texas is choosing aggy. It is crazy but it is realty.