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Congratulations, OU, In Your Outrage You Just Violated the Law

As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care. 

I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat  by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation...

So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one...

PS OU still sucks.. 

 
we better not get too comfortable.  i bet this isn't isolated to the OU campus.  we may see videos and such from UT as well.  there's prejudice all over this country.  OU just got caught.

 
Davharjac said:
As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care. 

I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat  by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation...

So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one...

PS OU still sucks.. 
Click to expand...
Well said. 

My position is that the action taken towards the racists was appropriate.  However, the vitriolic statement by the university president was a little over the line and inappropriate for such an esteemed position.  A bit more gravitas was warranted in my opinion.  The rest of my position deems the action inexcusably hypocritical.  Hypocritical in light of the fact that star football players, who beat women, were actually rewarded with full scholarships instead of being run out of Norman on a rail.

 
It is pretty clear that this SAE bit is not just relegated to OU. The frat was established in Alabama before the Civil War.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/09/1369591/-A-deeper-examination-of-the-sheer-joy-of-Oklahoma-students-chanting-about-hanging-niggers-from-trees

This article cites that there were reports of this behavior on the Texas campus a month before the OU campus.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/03/university_of_texas_frat_under_scrutiny_for_racist_and_homophobic_rules.html

This site posts about the notorious"FIJI" chapters ridiculous rules for its members.

At A&M, there have been issue with FIJI and others. Instances of goat shooting, super wedgies that caused testicle removal, binge drinking resulting in the death of a pledge, parties with racist themes, etc.

 
I wish I could figure out how to post a URL. There is an African American professor at OU that has posted a blog piece that is very good. Her name is Maria Dixon Hall, and the post is entitled "A Teachable Moment: How OU Failed Transformation 101." Google it if you wish. She makes some excellent points.

 
bcherry168 said:
I wish I could figure out how to post a URL. There is an African American professor at OU that has posted a blog piece that is very good. Her name is Maria Dixon Hall, and the post is entitled "A Teachable Moment: How OU Failed Transformation 101." Google it if you wish. She makes some excellent points.
Click to expand...
Good call. 

Ms. Hall makes some interesting points and has a very Christian, forgiving POV.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mariadixonhall/2015/03/a-teachable-moment-how-ou-failed-transformation-101/

 
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Davharjac said:
As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care.

I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation...

So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one...

PS OU still sucks..
Click to expand...
Exactly. Well put.

What some people fail to realize is not whether they have the right to say it but what them saying it actually confirms for many people.

There have been accusations for years that Greek recruiting is racially motivated. They mostly want white, affluent members. Those members go on to be judges, lawyers, politicians, business people, etc.

If they have this notion that black people are beneath them, how are they going to treat them in the real world? You saw in ferguson the court system filled with racist emails and the courts being tougher on blacks and even acknowledging that and then saying the judge is a "revenue generating" machine that they can't remove.

When people talk about systemic racism, this is what they are talking about. Not overt racism like segregation or Jim Crow but attitudes like the ones expressed by OU SAE members and their eventual inclusion in the work force. I think one of the student expelled has a dad who owns a commercial real estate business. I think that kid will be fine economically. I worry about the African American kid busting their butt at OU who now has to wonder whether they will be judged on their merits or their skin color.

 
Chris Flanagan said:
Exactly. Well put.

What some people fail to realize is not whether they have the right to say it but what them saying it actually confirms for many people.

There have been accusations for years that Greek recruiting is racially motivated. They mostly want white, affluent members. Those members go on to be judges, lawyers, politicians, business people, etc.

If they have this notion that black people are beneath them, how are they going to treat them in the real world? You saw in ferguson the court system filled with racist emails and the courts being tougher on blacks and even acknowledging that and then saying the judge is a "revenue generating" machine that they can't remove.

When people talk about systemic racism, this is what they are talking about. Not overt racism like segregation or Jim Crow but attitudes like the ones expressed by OU SAE members and their eventual inclusion in the work force. I think one of the student expelled has a dad who owns a commercial real estate business. I think that kid will be fine economically. I worry about the African American kid busting their butt at OU who now has to wonder whether they will be judged on their merits or their skin color.
Click to expand...
This is flat out sad if you ask me

 
Chris Flanagan said:
Sad that it occurs or Sad that I brought it up?
Click to expand...
well chris im an african american woman myself..and I know what its like to deal with this kind of mess..but here's the thing thats more important right now...as much as some whom talk about OU in terms of just fan base alone and how much Texas and OU have been rivalries the bigger picture is this...Bob Stoops has got a mess ahead of him...and how he has to deal with the adversity of this whole mess...hes got a tough road ahead of him in terms of recruiting, it may affect it or it may not who knows at this point

 
Davharjac said:
As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care. 

I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat  by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation...

So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one...

PS OU still sucks.. 
Click to expand...

This is a very well thought out post. I feel your feelings, thats how well its written.

That said, I'd like you to think about some things.

1. What that frat did and the words they used were hurtful, backwards, insulting, and about par for neanderthal thinking. But bad words and hateful speech are not against the law. If it were, what do you do when you hear someone say "God Damn?" Arrest them? When you open the door to speech monitoring, its a door that will only become more open, not more closed.

2. I'm old school. And maybe that's not applicable for today, I don't know. But in my day when someone had such backwards thinking and was put on display for others to see – it was the community itself that came out to reject it. It could not survive once exposed because the community would not tolerate it. I've seen people move away because of such things rather than change their thinking and ways.

3. The freedoms (particularly privacy) you mentioned that were given up in the name of security are now haunting us. There are and have been hearings to expose the depth at which we are being watched and listened to and as we all have come to know – it's WAY out of line. Again, that door does not close, it only opens more.

4. This is no longer a black problem. This is a white problem. This is a brown problem. This is an everybody problem, a community problem and we ALL need to take ownership of and deal with in appropriate ways. But we should never turn our cheek to it. The outrage expressed on social media, the mainstream media, and even this thread are the public flogging these kids deserve. This will haunt them for a long, long time.

5. To answer at least one of your questions . . . I was a Pi Kappa Alpha (pike). We were mostly white but had several black members among us. Not to toot our horn too loud, but we were truly brothers and knew no skin color. I still have those friendships today. In the three years I survived that fraternity, I never once knew of a racial problem. But this was in 1982 and even then I felt we have overcome this issue for the most part. But we've been picked apart, racially, and set against each other in the last few years. That was not the case back then.

 
"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me"  Guess that saying isn't true anymore.

Not that I'm condoning the ou kids behavior at all but it appears you get punished more for saying things than negative/illegal actions and that truly bothers me.

"Two wrongs don't make a right" At least that old saying is still true.

 
doc longhorn said:
I don't think it is applicable.  The students were expelled within the guidelines of the OU student Code of Conduct.  Constitutionality was not a factor.
Click to expand...
Here's a copy of OU's Student Code. 

http://www.ou.edu/content/dam/studentlife/documents/AllCampusStudentCode.pdf

Looks to me like Expulsion is Step 10 under Article VII, unless Boren liberally interpreted Article IV, Section A. I don't know what threat drunken SAEs on a chauffeured party bus are to OU. Paging Randy Duke...

 
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Although what the SAE's did was despicable, it appears to me that OU violated their own code, as well as the First Amendment and the boys' right to due process in their handling of the matter.

Texas had a similar, though perhaps not as bad, situation that recently arose with the Fijis. My view is that Texas handled that situation much better than OU handled this one.

 
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