Wow TCU

[MikeV73]

And Baylor coach Art Briles strangely voted Oklahoma No. 1 and had Texas all the way down at No. 5, even though the Longhorns defeated the Sooners head-to-head.

When was that?

 

[Duke C #11]

If you are in the top four, who cares where you are in the top four? Maybe this will result in an eight team playoff at some point.

 

[tejasrulz]

In 2008, Briles voted Texas 5th and ou 1st even though Texas beat ou head to head. He had Texas lower in the coaches poll than anyone and his vote helped put ou ahead of Texas in the computer rankings, thus giving ou the nod. This year, he now is stating he didn't vote and gave it to one of his staff to do which is pure BS. Why wait 6 years to admit that when it gained so much attention back then?

So yea, if Baylor and TCU win this weekend Baylor should be the BIG XII champs. I can see why Baylor fans would be pissed but again, I would love karma biting Art right in his arse! 

 

[Worster1]

Poor Baylor, poor Briles... left out of the big dance.

I remember what you did Briles - you hated UT and found a way to express it.

Karma Briles, payback karma for your vote in 2008

 

[Chitownhorn]

When was that?

2008. He actually didn't vote, he sent the ballot to his underlings to vote, or so he says.  Here's the article. http://bit.ly/1ykjIZa

 

[Embrey]

Full disclosure - TCU grad here.

What are the criteria to determine the four (4) playoff teams?

From Collegefootballplayoff.com

The Best Four TeamsThe selection committee will choose the four teams for the playoff based on strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents, championships won and other factors.

1.  Strength of schedule:  Advantage TCU

2.  H2H:  Advantage Baylor

3.  Comparison of results against common opponents:  Advantage TCU (if you want to argue, look up the common opponents and see for yourself).

4.  Championships won:  If both win this weekend, Push.  For those of you who think the Big 12 made the rules up as they went along, I refer you to the Tiebreaking Procedures from Big12sports.com:

Tiebreaker ProceduresEffective June 2014

The following procedure will determine the Big 12 Conference representative to the Sugar Bowl (or alternate College Football Playoff game when the Sugar Bowl is a semifinal) in the event of a first-place or alternate place tie (for the avoidance of doubt, only Conference records will be used throughout the process):

1. If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.
2. If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 4 will be followed until a determination is made. Once a team has been eliminated from a multi-team comparison, it is dropped from further comparisons. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative. The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
3. The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed team(s) in the conference (4, 5 and 6….).
4. The highest ranked team in the first College Football Playoff poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative unless the two highest ranked tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the College Football Playoff poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the College Football Playoff.
5. The representative will be chosen by draw.

The Big 12 does not determine who is in the college football playoffs.  The tiebreaker is in place to determine who the Big 12 representative will be in a contractual bowl game.

I would add that all of the coaches and administrations, since June 2014, have known this all along.  This is what makes Baylor's attempt to create the false premise of conference champions as an over-riding factor to be considered so ridiculous.  Throw in a PR firm and I believe Baylor is unfortunately experiencing a bit of a backlash.  By spreading disinformation, Baylor is undermining the committee.

5.  Other factors:  Eye test, etc, Advantage TCU.  (See Jeff Long, chair of the playoff committee 12.2.2014).

TCU has an advantage in 3 of the 5 criteria.  Baylor has the advantage in one.  If both win, the two are tied as conference co-champions.

All of that being said, I believe Baylor is a fine football team.  I believe the difference between Baylor and TCU is miniscule.  I cannot refute the head-to-head argument.

What I find most ridiculous is that the committee has successfully made the argument TCU versus Baylor.  I would argue TCU & Baylor.  As of a week ago, there was a good chance that Mississippi State and Alabama were going to be in the playoffs.  There were many disappointed teams but the the committee never made it a zero-sum game between the two SEC West rivals.  By definition, only one of them could have played for the SEC championship.  Yet, when the same opportunity exists for two Big 12 schools, there is a zero-sum premise.  This is where the bias exists.  Each Big 12 team plays 9 conference games and three OOC games whereas most other conferences play 8 conference games and 4 OOC games.  Granted, a conference championship game exposes a potential playoff team to a loss but the benefit they receive from winning solidifies their placement in the top 4.

Here is what I would like to see this weekend:

Missouri beats Bama

Arizona beats Oregon

TCU beats Iowa State

Georgia Tech beats Florida State

Wisconsin beats Ohio State

Baylor beats Kansas State

If these were to all occur, we could have a playof that might look like this (in no particular order):

Alabama

Arizona

Baylor

TCU

I choose chaos.

 

[primal defense]

2008. He actually didn't vote, he sent the ballot to his underlings to vote, or so he says.  Here's the article. http://bit.ly/1ykjIZa

Briles gets no sympathy from me. He was responsible for his vote, so he can't blame it on an underling. Texas deserved to be rated no lower than third and his vote had them at fifth. A clear anti Texas vote to me.

Also, his non conference schedule has been a joke for years. If they would have played one good non conference team they might be in the top four. They played SMU, Northwestern State, and Buffalo. The combined scores of those three games was 178-27 which is impressive, but not enough to the committee to make the top four.

As far as TCU and Baylor against UT, I was more impressed with TCU against us than Baylor.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

I'm no FSU fan but being penalized for squeaking out games is absurd. The Noles are still undefeated. Bama, Oregon and TCU all have losses. And with all due respect to TCU, they beat a 6-5 Texas team.

Definite head scratcher to me.

I really don't want to see FSU in the playoffs.

However....it really is absurd that the only undefeated team is ranked 4th.

On another site (don't remember which one), it was posted that their strength of schedule is actually better than TCU's.

 

[streettopeschel]

In 2008, Briles voted Texas 5th and ou 1st even though Texas beat ou head to head. He had Texas lower in the coaches poll than anyone and his vote helped put ou ahead of Texas in the computer rankings, thus giving ou the nod. This year, he now is stating he didn't vote and gave it to one of his staff to do which is pure BS. Why wait 6 years to admit that when it gained so much attention back then?

So yea, if Baylor and TCU win this weekend Baylor should be the BIG XII champs. I can see why Baylor fans would be pissed but again, I would love karma biting Art right in his arse! 

  briles vote had no impact on the computer rankings.

 

[BevoBlake]

FSU is difficult. I really don't think they're all that good and their play against lesser opponents would back that theory up, in my opinion.

But they are undefeated. Which is something that none of the teams rounding up the Top 4 can say. 

 

[MikeV73]

In 2008, Briles voted Texas 5th and ou 1st even though Texas beat ou head to head. He had Texas lower in the coaches poll than anyone and his vote helped put ou ahead of Texas in the computer rankings, thus giving ou the nod. This year, he now is stating he didn't vote and gave it to one of his staff to do which is pure BS. Why wait 6 years to admit that when it gained so much attention back then?

So yea, if Baylor and TCU win this weekend Baylor should be the BIG XII champs. I can see why Baylor fans would be pissed but again, I would love karma biting Art right in his arse!

Major d-bag, amazingly I managed to miss that entire story back in 2008. Baylor can suck it at the 6th spot. Go k-state! of course I was already rooting against Baylor before I heard the back story.

 

[Juan]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

 

[Sirhornsalot]

  briles vote had no impact on the computer rankings.

While true, his vote is not pointless and is considered in the overall process. Otherwise, why vote at all?

Regardless of which "underling" did the voting - the name on the ballot belongs to Art Briles so he owns the vote. If this is what he does with an important vote, maybe they should let another school's coach vote instead.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

— Twitter API (@twitterapi) November 7, 2011

How about "The Big 12 – taking on each other and a media man crush on another conference"

 

[TheContractor]

however, briles has claimed over and over again, that he did not apply a vote at that particular time.  i wonder who is telling the truth here...

thats no excuse, its his responsibility. especially at the end of the year. 

 

[TheContractor]

head to head should matter. - it didnt matter in 2008

Being a conf Champ should matter. - it didnt matter in 2011

Big12 than can claim Baylor the 1 true champ of the conference but that doesnt mean BU should/will go over TCU. Look at SOS, that imo needs to be a huge factor. BU hasnt played anything non-conference. They might as well have scheduled a bye. You can argue both way but we still have 1 game left. Lets see where that puts us. 

For those that remember the TCU@BU game, TCU got hosed on a horrible PI can twice. Once when TCU had the ball and once when BU had the ball. Both times it was in the last few minutes of the game. That gave Bu the come back win. 

 

[streettopeschel]

While true, his vote is not pointless and is considered in the overall process. Otherwise, why vote at all?

Regardless of which "underling" did the voting - the name on the ballot belongs to Art Briles so he owns the vote. If this is what he does with an important vote, maybe they should let another school's coach vote instead.

ha. yeah, because no other coach has ever dished his vote to an SID or another underling. 

if briles or whoever for bu had voted UT 1 and left ou off the ballot, the sooners would have still finished ahead in the bcs and represented the South in the big 12 title game. that's just the math. 

if people wanna be pissed at briles for his vote, fine. but it didn't keep us from anything.

 

[TheContractor]

Full disclosure - TCU grad here.

What are the criteria to determine the four (4) playoff teams?

From Collegefootballplayoff.com

The Best Four TeamsThe selection committee will choose the four teams for the playoff based on strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents, championships won and other factors.

1.  Strength of schedule:  Advantage TCU

2.  H2H:  Advantage Baylor

3.  Comparison of results against common opponents:  Advantage TCU (if you want to argue, look up the common opponents and see for yourself).

4.  Championships won:  If both win this weekend, Push.  For those of you who think the Big 12 made the rules up as they went along, I refer you to the Tiebreaking Procedures from Big12sports.com:

Tiebreaker Procedures Effective June 2014
The following procedure will determine the Big 12 Conference representative to the Sugar Bowl (or alternate College Football Playoff game when the Sugar Bowl is a semifinal) in the event of a first-place or alternate place tie (for the avoidance of doubt, only Conference records will be used throughout the process):

1. If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.
2. If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 4 will be followed until a determination is made. Once a team has been eliminated from a multi-team comparison, it is dropped from further comparisons. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative. The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
3. The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed team(s) in the conference (4, 5 and 6….).
4. The highest ranked team in the first College Football Playoff poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative unless the two highest ranked tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the College Football Playoff poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the College Football Playoff.
5. The representative will be chosen by draw.

The Big 12 does not determine who is in the college football playoffs.  The tiebreaker is in place to determine who the Big 12 representative will be in a contractual bowl game.

I would add that all of the coaches and administrations, since June 2014, have known this all along.  This is what makes Baylor's attempt to create the false premise of conference champions as an over-riding factor to be considered so ridiculous.  Throw in a PR firm and I believe Baylor is unfortunately experiencing a bit of a backlash.  By spreading disinformation, Baylor is undermining the committee.

5.  Other factors:  Eye test, etc, Advantage TCU.  (See Jeff Long, chair of the playoff committee 12.2.2014).

TCU has an advantage in 3 of the 5 criteria.  Baylor has the advantage in one.  If both win, the two are tied as conference co-champions.

All of that being said, I believe Baylor is a fine football team.  I believe the difference between Baylor and TCU is miniscule.  I cannot refute the head-to-head argument.

What I find most ridiculous is that the committee has successfully made the argument TCU versus Baylor.  I would argue TCU & Baylor.  As of a week ago, there was a good chance that Mississippi State and Alabama were going to be in the playoffs.  There were many disappointed teams but the the committee never made it a zero-sum game between the two SEC West rivals.  By definition, only one of them could have played for the SEC championship.  Yet, when the same opportunity exists for two Big 12 schools, there is a zero-sum premise.  This is where the bias exists.  Each Big 12 team plays 9 conference games and three OOC games whereas most other conferences play 8 conference games and 4 OOC games.  Granted, a conference championship game exposes a potential playoff team to a loss but the benefit they receive from winning solidifies their placement in the top 4.

Here is what I would like to see this weekend:

Missouri beats Bama

Arizona beats Oregon

TCU beats Iowa State

Georgia Tech beats Florida State

Wisconsin beats Ohio State

Baylor beats Kansas State

If these were to all occur, we could have a playof that might look like this (in no particular order):

Alabama

Arizona

Baylor

TCU

I choose chaos.

1. SOS - huge advantage for TCU

2. H2H - BU

3. common opponents - Advantage TCU

4. assuming both win tomorrow - advantage Bayor, they are big12 champs, no doubt about it. 

5. eye test - TCU

also, in your scenario at the bottom: why does Bama get in with 2 losses and Oregon/tOsu not get in with 2 losses and Fsu not get in with 1 loss. Thats a lot of debate right there. Big12 would have a shot at 2 teams in. GT and Wisc(i think) would also have 2 losses and conf titles.

 

[streettopeschel]

KSU coming off a bye week may make this entire debate moot. conversely, an impressive BU win would be a game changer imo.

 

[TheContractor]

ha. yeah, because no other coach has ever dished his vote to an SID or another underling. 

if briles or whoever for bu had voted UT 1 and left ou off the ballot, the sooners would have still finished ahead in the bcs and represented the South in the big 12 title game. that's just the math. 

if people wanna be pissed at briles for his vote, fine. but it didn't keep us from anything.

its been a few years but i clearly think the vote made a difference in the BCS standings. From what i remember if Briles or whoever he "gave that vote to" had Ou at 1 and Texas at 3, Ou would have still gone to MNC game but if he had Texas at 1 and OU at 5 then Texas had a chance to go. But the vote mattered. 

Also, if you dont want to vote you dont have to. Dont give it to someone else to screw up.