This is kinda funny

[MBHORNSFAN]

 

[Sparky82]

I haven't heard Strong make any excuses. As far as I know, he hasn't whined about the totally political f&$@ing he's being subjected to, either.

 

[MikeV73]

I haven't heard Strong make any excuses. As far as I know, he hasn't whined about the totally political f&$@ing he's being subjected to, either.

Agree, don't see Stong making excuses or throwing Mack under the bus.

 

[Bear19]

Strong doesn't to his great credit.

But many of his supporters do.

And some of them are legitimate.

 

[Duke C #11]

I could see that this is kinda funny if you are an Aggie or Sooner. For me, meh.

 

[Sparky82]

No doubt, some of the complaints are legitimate. However, considering the quality of players CS continues to bring in (and their obvious desire to play hard for him), Charlie's situation feels more like sabotage by powerful, petty egos being bruised for not having been allowed influence in the decision two years ago whether to bring Strong in. Yep, he's been far from perfect, e.g. missing badly with Watson and Wickline (and my personal pet peeve, the apparent lack of attention toward the performance of special teams). If Gilbert and Mattox turn out to produce more of the same offensively, and assuming they aren't undermined by reactionary boosters, then Charlie will rightfully face the consequences. As of now, however, IMO Strong has added a lot more good than bad, which will reap dividends. But it takes a minute or two to turn an aircraft carrier 180 degrees. There's ample evidence that Strong teaches the kinds of values every day, with relentless effort, that will produce excellent players, teammates, and men. And given a fair chance, it's more than likely those players and their coaches are going to win Texas LOTS of games.

My apologies for the rant. I just felt the other side of the coin was due consideration. Hook 'em.

 

[Etex Horn]

No doubt, some of the complaints are legitimate. However, considering the quality of players CS continues to bring in (and their obvious desire to play hard for him), Charlie's situation feels more like sabotage by powerful, petty egos being bruised for not having been allowed influence in the decision two years ago whether to bring Strong in. Yep, he's been far from perfect, e.g. missing badly with Watson and Wickline (and my personal pet peeve, the apparent lack of attention toward the performance of special teams). If Gilbert and Mattox turn out to produce more of the same offensively, and assuming they aren't undermined by reactionary boosters, then Charlie will rightfully face the consequences. As of now, however, IMO Strong has added a lot more good than bad, which will reap dividends. But it takes a minute or two to turn an aircraft carrier 180 degrees. There's ample evidence that Strong teaches the kinds of values every day, with relentless effort, that will produce excellent players, teammates, and men. And given a fair chance, it's more than likely those players and their coaches are going to win Texas LOTS of games.

My apologies for the rant. I just felt the other side of the coin was due consideration. Hook 'em.

Good post, Sparky. You should post more often. 

 

[DMAC]

IMO Strong has added a lot more good than bad, which will reap dividends. 

Strong is a great guy, but he picked Wickline and Watson.  He decided to stay with Watson after 3 blowouts and wasted an entire off season with his garbage offense.  In the end 6-7 and 5-7 in two years consisting of multiple blowouts and embarrassments is hardly what I would call "more good than bad".  

It takes time to turn aircraft carrier around?  Maybe Herman navigates a speedboat since he is 13-1 in his first season with the UH cougars.  Yes keyword UH cougars.  Michigan and Florida had talent but their first year coaches do not need excuses or justifications.  Yea Texas is the exception, pray tell why that is?  Where exactly is this evidence that our carrier has even started turning around?  Funny Strong is paid significantly more than any of those other aforementioned coaches that have produced the same amount of wins in one year that strong has accumulated in 2 years.  So why is Strong considered so special?

Strong is bringing in good recruits?  For sure.  Those other first year coaches and schools do as well.  So what exactly is this glaring advantage Strong brings to our program that no other coach can bring?  From what I have seen these past two years, not much at all and nothing that Herman or Harbaugh couldn't bring.

Charlie was paid 1 million per win this season.  I believe he has the worst salary per win in the entire FBS.  Except maybe the 800k Beaty made for going winless.  Division by zero, funny.

 

[Sparky82]

... Strong is bringing in good recruits? For sure. Those other first year coaches and schools do as well. So what exactly is this glaring advantage Strong brings to our program that no other coach can bring? From what I have seen these past two years, not much at all and nothing that Herman or Harbaugh couldn't bring....

Hello, DMAC, Question for you -- where did I say Strong brings [ANY] advantages no other coach can? I didn't. You sound angered that someone would suggest that perfection is a tougher row to hoe than you or anyone else can manage. I said Strong missed badly on Watson and Wickline. I also said he doesn't put enough emphasis on special teams (which we all know cost UT at least two games this year). Then I said if things don't improve next year, Strong will rightfully face the consequences.
By the way, when did you become so concerned that big money donors would have to wait at least an extra year to brag that it was THEIR MONEY that bestowed on Horns Nation its next national football championship? Those donors aren't worried about going broke. All I'm saying is that it makes no sense to dump Strong this year, because whether you want to admit it or not, it can and will get a lot worse bringing in someone else before giving Strong a full opportunity to get things turned around. And, yes, at this stage in the recruiting cycle, that includes even bringing in Herman. Fire Strong today, and watch what happens. Every parent of a top recruit, not to mention the recruits, themselves, would at very least think twice before entrusting a promising future to an organization which lacks the maturity, professionalism, and wisdom to see things through long enough to determine with any certainty that a wholesale coaching change is in the best interest of them or their sons.

 

[DMAC]

Hello, DMAC, Question for you -- where did I say Strong brings [ANY] advantages no other coach can? I didn't. You sound angered that someone would suggest that perfection is a tougher row to hoe than you or anyone else can manage. I said Strong missed badly on Watson and Wickline. I also said he doesn't put enough emphasis on special teams (which we all know cost UT at least two games this year). Then I said if things don't improve next year, Strong will rightfully face the consequences.

By the way, when did you become so concerned that big money donors would have to wait at least an extra year to brag that it was THEIR MONEY that bestowed on Horns Nation its next national football championship? Those donors aren't worried about going broke. All I'm saying is that it makes no sense to dump Strong this year, because whether you want to admit it or not, it can and will get a lot worse bringing in someone else before giving Strong a full opportunity to get things turned around. And, yes, at this stage in the recruiting cycle, that includes even bringing in Herman. Fire Strong today, and watch what happens. Every parent of a top recruit, not to mention the recruits, themselves, would at very least think twice before entrusting a promising future to an organization which lacks the maturity, professionalism, and wisdom to see things through long enough to determine with any certainty that a wholesale coaching change is in the best interest of them or their sons.

You said he brings more good than bad.  You go on to mention bringing in recruits, Core values and bringing up good hard working young men.  All great things but hardly anything special or even worth 5 million per year.  if you buy a ford fiesta but pay for a Tesla then you have a right to be upset.

You might be right about recruits.  I could see recruits spurning Texas because they believe the program isnt mature or professional or lacks wisdom to see things through.  But after one year Michigan #3, Forida is #7 and UH is #28 in recruiting rankings with their brand new coaches.  Charlie is #47.  So no I dont buy your argument.  

The problem with your entire argument is all of it based purely on assumptions.  It will get better.  Hes turning it around.  He just needs time.  None of which has come true, thus far.  Not one.  After 2 years.  He hasnt improved this team.  He wasted this year by his own decision.  

You are dealing in hope for the future and I am dealing in reality of the current standing.  As of now he is NOT successful.  His record here at Texas proves that.  I dont care about his Urban Meyer days or Louisville, I am talking about here at Texas.  Show me proof otherwise.

Charlie would make a great DC at Texas but as a HC....meh.  IMO, he looks lost when it comes to offense.  He looks clueless as to what the issues are with the proverbial "We just need to execute better..blah blah" in EVERY post game PC.  How else do you explain him keeping Watson after 2014 and wasting an entire fkin off season?   How could he not see the product on the practice field at every practice?  Let us not forget the ND players making statements such as "they were surprised how lost and disorganized Texas was but they had talent".  We all heard the BS about how they were going to be improved.  So now we all want to mob Watson (me included) but the difference is I hold Strong accountable for that decision.  

In the end I would rather have a coach that knows how to surround themselves with good people, that can isolate the issues when the offense is shit, that can make in game adjustments (0-11 when the other team scores first), and all that other HC stuff.

So yea I think Strong was a mistake and until he actually has a winning season I will continue to believe so.  Two years later....still waiting.  I guess I am envious of Michigan, Houston, and Florida.  They are not stuck with this so called 5 year plan bullshit.  Herman managed to go 13-1 with a WR at QB for some of the season.  So much for "it takes time to bring in your guys".

 

[Godz40acres]

Herman managed to go 13-1 with a WR at QB for some of the season.  So much for "it takes time to bring in your guys".

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said except for the above.

Using the Herman 1st year record means it should be applied to every coach who has ever coached, including Herman at his other HC stops. So Harbaugh, Meyer, Sabin, DKR, are/were inept because they didn't match what Herman did?

Not looking for a fight here, just asking that you reconsider this one piece of your argument.

 

[DMAC]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said except for the above.

Using the Herman 1st year record means it should be applied to every coach who has ever coached, including Herman at his other HC stops. So Harbaugh, Meyer, Sabin, DKR, are/were inept because they didn't match what Herman did?

Not looking for a fight here, just asking that you reconsider this one piece of your argument.

I have posted the records for Harbaugh, Herman, McElwain numerous times.  Now look at Strong's record in two years.  Proof is the numbers.  Strong has not produced and is paid substantially more than any of them.  So why people cut Strong so much slack or defend his record at Texas is baffling.  Should we so readily accept mediocrity?

Houston Cougars beat #9 FSU, with a UH roster.  People doubted him throughout the season claiming they were playing Memphis and those teams were not as good as their ranking.  Well he did it all season in his first year.  He used a 4 string QB who was a WR before the season started for some of those games. So yea give him his due credit.   

Many people here have been using the lack of talent reason for the "5 year plan" or "it takes time".   I agree with that for the most part as that is the norm, but if I say Harbaugh is a better coach than Strong I get the immediate "They have more talent, Mack killed our program".  Ok, sounds reasonable.  Lets go there.  Why is Houston so much better?  Talent?   Not buying the talent argument with regards to Houston.  So what is it?  IMO Coaching.  

As for Harbaugh and these other coaches you mentioned, read below.  Those records are in line with Herman, some took a little longer.  But Houston does not have the talent those schools have either.

And it's only a surprise because we felt obligated to temper expectations. That, and the offseason of Harbaugh made even those of us in the media seek to balance out the hype. There are no sure things in sports, especially college football, but adding a top coach to a talented roster in a conference with only two current heavyweights was acknowledged as an eventual no-doubter ... except it wouldn't come together this quickly. Right?

Sure, why not? After what Urban Meyer did at Ohio State with a similar situation, going 12-0 in Year 1 with a title two years after? After Nick Saban followed a Year-4 title at LSU by kicking off an Alabama dynasty in Year 3? Harbaugh doesn't have a title, but it's really easy to argue that going 12-1 at Stanford is at least as assuring of his talents as adding Ohio State's eighth championship or Alabama's eleventeenth.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/10/10/9494241/michigan-northwestern-game-results-2015-jim-harbaugh

I can only speculate what Herman or a Harbaugh could do with our roster, but I am convinced it would be better than 5-7 which included numerous blowouts, one being to Iowa State.

Strong is a lovable guy and good man but I am ready for a breakup.  Yes I want Herman.  Imagine what he could do here with the resources, tradition, the city of Austin, etc.

 

[Godz40acres]

I'm not arguing for or against Coach Strong. All I'm stating is that to say Herman went 13-1 in his first year at UH means Strong should go also infers that any coach who doesn't equal that feat does not deserve to stay where he is/was.

Now you're adding that "some took longer." That's true - most take longer than one year. That's the point.

 

[Sparky82]

I'm not arguing for or against Coach Strong. All I'm stating is that to say Herman went 12-1 in his first year at UH means Strong should go also infers that any coach who doesn't equal that feat does not deserve to stay where he is/was.

Now you're adding that "some took longer." That's true - most take longer than one year. That's the point.

I feel your pain, Godz40. Wisdom is lost on the angry.

 

[Epictetus]

Probably make an interesting study to outline assistant coaching (especially coordinator) changes during the first 3 years of any new HC at a competitive program, including those getting to be competitive (such as the Baylors).

How did it peak, and then what happens right after peaking? Or near-peaking.

So a similar outline of changes once an outstanding winning season is established. Then what changes take place the next three years after that, tied to the pressure to keep winning.

Bet the research would show that success comes from perfect storms of recruiting classes, luck in roll of the dice in getting and keep assistants, plus hitting on the right QB.

So far, appears aggy is going through top coordinator changes no different than what's happening (or wished to be happening) UT.

To get the right coordinators and keep them...  to win you must (says Yoda).

 

[MikeV73]

To get the right coordinators and keep them... to win you must (says Yoda).

I hear Yoda is the new strength and conditioning coach for Florida Atlantic. Great hire.

 

[DMAC]

I feel your pain, Godz40. Wisdom is lost on the angry.

LOL.  How is it angry?  For real?  

I have stated multiple times I like Strong but do not believe he is a great HC coach and we could do better.  

You have specified getting rid of Strong would hurt our recruiting.  I have shown you evidence it didnt hurt the other coaches in my example.

You have mentioned he has brought more good than bad.  Other than 5 core values what is it?  Two sub .500 seasons is bad. 

or 

You can post more clever snippets instead of facts to support your argument.

 

[DMAC]

I'm not arguing for or against Coach Strong. All I'm stating is that to say Herman went 13-1 in his first year at UH means Strong should go also infers that any coach who doesn't equal that feat does not deserve to stay where he is/was.

Now you're adding that "some took longer." That's true - most take longer than one year. That's the point.

Urban Meyer 1st years:

Bowling Green: 8-3

Utah: 10-2

Florida: 9-3

Ohio State: 12-0

Tom Herman 1st years:

Houston: 13-1

Les Miles 1st years:

OSU: 4-7

LSU: 11-2

Nick Saban:

Toledo: 9-2

Michigan State: 6-5

LSU: 8-4

Alabama: 7-6

Jim Harbaugh:

Stanford: 4-8

Michigan: 10-3

Charlie Strong

Louisville: 7-6

Texas: 6-7

So out of that list Harbaugh at Stanford and Les Miles at OSU had losing records their first year at a new school.

I get your point.  I agree, it is unfair to think every coach should be able to duplicate that.  Most will not.  Urban's record in his first years is very impressive.  Still not sold on Charlie.  In the end I would trust a Harbaugh, Meyer, or Herman to make staff decisions more so than I do Strong.  

 

[Bear19]

I'm too lazy to look it up but it might be equally instructive to look at year two in the coaches tenure. Was there improvement from year one to year two? Unfortunately ,not for Charlie.