Steve F. Patterson

[streettopeschel]

Was part of hiring the undisputed worst football coach in school history and after losing to last place ou, his basketball hire is a near certainty to be the first to lose 20 since Kaiser Bob in Reagan's first term.

Add in that he was run out of town before needing to reorder business cards and his reign will certainly be remembered. And not favorably.

 

[Johnstark23]

X10,000,000 right on Street, but at least baseball session starts on Friday.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

The "Steve Patterson Curse" will live on in reclamation projects for both Tom Herman and whoever replaces Shaka in 2018.

Dadgummit!

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

I have not given up on Shaka yet but it appears this team has bigger problems than just being young. 

 

[streettopeschel]

I have not given up on Shaka yet but it appears this team has bigger problems than just being young.

I've not given up either but the guys claiming a PG will cure everything are guilty of wishful thinking.

 

[longhorn_mig]

Ditto, not giving up on Shaka yet. If we're in this same situation next season, then let's talk.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Ditto, not giving up on Shaka yet. If we're in this same situation next season, then let's talk.

^ ^ Thats where I'm at

 

[83Dee]

I have not given up on Shaka yet but it appears this team has bigger problems than just being young. 

I'm with you.... but it took me a long time to finally accept that Coach Strong needed to be replaced. 

Shake seems very competent; had a great run at his former stop and recruits very well (sounds familiar).  But there is no GOOD explanation for the performance of this team and I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier, that a true point guard doesn't fix everything.... unless he can take all the clutch free throws no matter who is fouled?  In any case, laying all the hopes of Texas Basketball on a high school senior doesn't seem very prudent. 

And... please, just for my own sanity sake.... nobody explain that this team is young! 

 

[Sirhornsalot]

I'm with you.... but it took me a long time to finally accept that Coach Strong needed to be replaced. 

Shake seems very competent; had a great run at his former stop and recruits very well (sounds familiar).  But there is no GOOD explanation for the performance of this team and I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier, that a true point guard doesn't fix everything.... unless he can take all the clutch free throws no matter who is fouled?  In any case, laying all the hopes of Texas Basketball on a high school senior doesn't seem very prudent. 

And... please, just for my own sanity sake.... nobody explain that this team is young! 

I don't think it's just a PG. Its also having two frosh in the paint. Leading scorer kicked off team.

The last time we pinned hopes on a HS senior, it worked out rather well for us.

 

[primal defense]

The people that decided that hiring Steve Patterson over Oliver Luck....

 

[83Dee]

I don't think it's just a PG. Its also having two frosh in the paint. Leading scorer kicked off team.

The last time we pinned hopes on a HS senior, it worked out rather well for us.

Granted, one player can do much more in basketball than most other team sports.  But pinning hopes on a high school senior is not prudent BECAUSE we cannot be sure his elite high school game will translate to college.  There are (believe it or not) misses in recruiting; even with highly ranked kids. 

So, while I agree with the gist of what you are saying, I will  nit-pick just a bit further:

1)  We weren't all that great when we had our leading scorer on the team. 

2) You can win in college basketball with a young team (see Kentucky or Fab Five if you are a little longer in the tooth)  The best teams tend to have "one and done or two and done" players. 

3) Doesn't the young team argument kind of self defeat when you start pinning hopes on a high school senior?

4) I haven't researched this, but regarding your shining example of Durant.... wasn't that team eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tournament?  

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

All I saw in the thread title was F. Patterson. About sums it up.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

Granted, one player can do much more in basketball than most other team sports.  But pinning hopes on a high school senior is not prudent BECAUSE we cannot be sure his elite high school game will translate to college.  There are (believe it or not) misses in recruiting; even with highly ranked kids. 

So, while I agree with the gist of what you are saying, I will  nit-pick just a bit further:

1)  We weren't all that great when we had our leading scorer on the team. 

2) You can win in college basketball with a young team (see Kentucky or Fab Five if you are a little longer in the tooth)  The best teams tend to have "one and done or two and done" players. 

3) Doesn't the young team argument kind of self defeat when you start pinning hopes on a high school senior?

4) I haven't researched this, but regarding your shining example of Durant.... wasn't that team eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tournament?  

1. Teams of frosh and sophs seldom are.

2. Both of those are either ongoing collections of 5 star talent, or consisted of five-star talent themselves. Thats not what we have. Thats not what we've ever had.

3. No, because current players do not stay young. They grow older as we go. When the new PG takes over, he's working with a team with a year experience together already. We didn't have that this year.

4. No, they were not beaten in the first round. But to expound since we're talking about a player's performance rather than the team's, Durant had more minutes than any other player on the team, scored more points than anyone else, and had more rebounds per game than anyone else on the team. In fact, Durant almost scored twice as many points as the player who ranked 2nd on the team. Why on earth would you turn down that production?

We're not exactly pinning hopes on a wing and a prayer here. He comes to us from Oak Hill Academy, a school that exists because of basketball and attracts premier players from across the country.

But I'm not pinning all hopes on a Freshman PG. If he can just do the job effectively, I'm good. Other pieces are in place. I expect a far better result and obviously, am not surprised by whats happening today.

 

[83Dee]

1. Teams of frosh and sophs seldom are.

2. Both of those are either ongoing collections of 5 star talent, or consisted of five-star talent themselves. Thats not what we have. Thats not what we've ever had.

3. No, because current players do not stay young. They grow older as we go. When the new PG takes over, he's working with a team with a year experience together already. We didn't have that this year.

4. No, they were not beaten in the first round. But to expound since we're talking about a player's performance rather than the team's, Durant had more minutes than any other player on the team, scored more points than anyone else, and had more rebounds per game than anyone else on the team. In fact, Durant almost scored twice as many points as the player who ranked 2nd on the team. Why on earth would you turn down that production?

We're not exactly pinning hopes on a wing and a prayer here. He comes to us from Oak Hill Academy, a school that exists because of basketball and attracts premier players from across the country.

But I'm not pinning all hopes on a Freshman PG. If he can just do the job effectively, I'm good. Other pieces are in place. I expect a far better result and obviously, am not surprised by whats happening today.

1.  We disagree.  Let's look at the final four this year (if either of us remember this) and see how many freshmen and sophomores are on the court.  Really good players that get you to the final four leave after their freshman (or sophomore) years.... good teams in college basketball are often very young.  

2.  I did a quick check:  Davis 4*, Roach 4*, Mack 4*, Allen 5* Banks 3*.  Surely you are not saying these kids are playing up to expectations?  How many 5* freshmen and sophomores does it take to hit a record of .500?  I'm not suggesting we fire Shaka, but can't we admit this season is a gigantic disappointment without the excuses that "we are young" that I heard for three straight football seasons? 

3. And if he doesn't pan out... are we "just a true point guard away" again next year?  Or does a year of maturity make that much difference? 

4.  Okay... you were right.  Texas beat New Mexico St. in the first round and were upset by USC in the second... that is your example suggesting that pinning all hopes on a freshman is prudent.  I'm still confused; are you saying you can or can't win with freshmen and sophomores.....  I guess what I hear you saying is that you can win with one superstar freshmen, but if you have too many freshmen and sophomores, you can't win, unless they are four and five star freshmen and sophomores?   

My point is that I expected more from Shaka, year two... young or not; and that this team is not playing up to their potential.  It is a disappointing basketball season.   

 

[Sirhornsalot]

1.  We disagree.  Let's look at the final four this year (if either of us remember this) and see how many freshmen and sophomores are on the court.  Really good players that get you to the final four leave after their freshman (or sophomore) years.... good teams in college basketball are often very young.  

2.  I did a quick check:  Davis 4*, Roach 4*, Mack 4*, Allen 5* Banks 3*.  Surely you are not saying these kids are playing up to expectations?  How many 5* freshmen and sophomores does it take to hit a record of .500?  I'm not suggesting we fire Shaka, but can't we admit this season is a gigantic disappointment without the excuses that "we are young" that I heard for three straight football seasons? 

3. And if he doesn't pan out... are we "just a true point guard away" again next year?  Or does a year of maturity make that much difference? 

4.  Okay... you were right.  Texas beat New Mexico St. in the first round and were upset by USC in the second... that is your example suggesting that pinning all hopes on a freshman is prudent.  I'm still confused; are you saying you can or can't win with freshmen and sophomores.....  I guess what I hear you saying is that you can win with one superstar freshmen, but if you have too many freshmen and sophomores, you can't win, unless they are four and five star freshmen and sophomores?   

My point is that I expected more from Shaka, year two... young or not; and that this team is not playing up to their potential.  It is a disappointing basketball season.  

1. We are not Kentucky. Heck, we're not even Kansas.

2. No, I'm not. And I explained why I think the team isn't doing well, above. And I did say we are not doing well.

3. What if he sticks a chicken bone in his eye having dinner at mom's? Are we going to play that, seriously?

4. You can call it an upset. A #5 beat a #4. It happens fairly regularly.

No, what you hear me saying is that not only can a freshmen come in and be the missing piece (contrary to your opinion), he can LEAD THE TEAM IN ALL CATEGORIES, too. At that point, does it matter what name you attach beside his?

5. I wanted more from Shaka, but knew at the end of last season it would be rough this year. Everything in the paint is young and timid, although loaded with promise. The progress I see Allen making is huge. What happens with the others when they get to do what they're built to do? And have the ball distributed like a PG should?

Shaka made a living out of getting diamonds in the rough. Now, he doesn't have to find the hidden gems. He can go get the bigs. And thats what he's done. I'm finding it hard, if not impossible, to be upset about that. He's in Year 2 and just got a PG from Oak Hill. That pleases me. Odds of this panning out are high because this is the type of player that Duke, Kentucky and Kansas normally get and we don't.

 

[83Dee]

1. We are not Kentucky. Heck, we're not even Kansas.

I think in all this banter back and forth, the quote above is my primary point where we dissent.  In my years following Texas basketball:  from Abe Lemmons, to Bob Wetlich, to Tom Penders, to Rick Barnes and now Shaka Smart I have always wondered, with regard to the statement above, "why not?"  Lemmons put Texas basketball on the map, Wetlich didn't work out; Penders brought us to a fringe top 25 team and Barnes placed us consistently from 15-25 (all generalizations).  During this time, I have seen teams like Houston and Arkansas rise to levels in basketball that Texas only dreams of reaching.  Why not Texas?  We have "more money than the Vatican" and many people don't know this, but Texas high schools have become a recruiting treasure-trove for colleges (like the Kansas' and Dukes of the world).   In the 40 some years I have been following Texas basketball, I remember being in the top 10 once with Lemmons (the year we ultimately crashed, burned and he got fired) and two or three times under Barnes.  We ended up in the top ten once (to my knowledge) when TJ Ford took us to the Final Four.  My question remains, why can Texas not be UH of the 80s or Arkansas of the 90s? 

We hired Shaka - when he was in line for one of the "have" jobs.... one of those schools you rightly point out - Texas is not (Kansas, Duke, NC...)  He was at the top of everyone's list.  I really didn't expect that this would be a four year ground up rebuilding effort that would necessitate a losing season year 2. It isn't just a losing season but it is how we lose.... I have watched several games where we look very competitive for 38 minutes and then the wheels fly off in the last 2:00. 

I hope you are right Sirhornsalot.  I hope the problem is youth in the paint and no point guard.... both being turned around next year.  Make no mistake about it; I am rooting for that!  I am rooting for us becoming the Duke.... Kansas of the South in basketball.... why not?  But my point remains, I wasn't expecting the ineptness that this season has displayed; and it at least gives my optimism a small pause.