Agmaniacmike
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- Nov 11, 2013
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I found this account of recruiting philosophy interesting.
As I like to tell people, I was lucky enough to 'learn from the best' at the top of their game at Illinois at Illinois from 2005-till-2008 when the real recruiters left, below is some of the 'lessons' I learned, fun facts I hope you enjoy.
*Your d-line coach should always be one of your top recruiters on the staff. Why? D-line recruits the hardest to find (especially top defensive tackles) and most competitive recruiting battles in the end are for top d-line prospects in college football. D-line coach doesn't have to be the lead recruiter on the prospect but will have to play a big role in closing the kid. Why guys like Larry Johnson (Ohio State), Ed Orgeron (former USC), Rodney Garner (Auburn), Chris Wilson (from Georgia to USC), Brick Haley (LSU), Jerry Montgomery (Oklahoma), Greg Mattison (made his rep as a d-line coach) are always some of the most wanted assistant coaches when a head coach is looking to hire a new d-line coach. All mentioned above not only good coaches but great closers at a big position of need in college football.
*Never recruit an offensive lineman that comes from money. An old theory by cranky offensive line coaches. Reason? O-line is the toughest to play in college. Daily you have to put on the pads, knee braces, get yelled at by a perfectionist line coach who is always pissed....by the 2nd, 3rd year in the program, a kid from money says to himself, 'do I really need to do this?' when he can go home and work for dad or quit, go party. Most kids like that don't have the chip on their shoulder to keep going, of course exceptions to the rule but on average, don't recruit o-linemen that come from money. At Illinois recruits like Rob Needham, Kyle Schnettgoeke, Ryan Sedlacek, and Mike Zande come to mind as kids that came from money but either quit or never did much on the field, no chip on their shoulder. Get kids that come from nothing or blue collar kids and when times get tough, o-line coach says to those types, 'well I guess if you quit you will go back and be the biggest strip club bouncer in Columbus or work the loading docks at Walmart, you really want to do that?' QB's that come from money also in my view now, don't take the risk, just don't have that chip on their shoulder to put the hard work in most of the time IMHO.
*Never recruit a QB that has small hands or an ugly girlfriend. Former ND o-line coaching legend Joe Moore always said that about the GF, goes to confidence a kid has in himself, how he carries himself, etc....funny one but....small hands has more to do with ball control, ability to spin the ball down the field. Russell Wilson, Johnny Football both short in stature but both have big hands and can zip the ball right down the field.
*Make sure every linebacker you recruit is the toughest kid on his high school team. Linebackers are the emotional leaders of your defense and if you get one that isn't a tough kid....can't teach toughness and drive I was always told. Also, not bad to recruit the 'little brothers' of former players because little brothers most of the time have that toughness, chip on their shoulders because of having to take crap, beatings from their older brothers, LOL. Always get those linebackers that have 2.5 GPA's, smart enough to pick up what the coach is teaching but dumb enough to keep getting back up when they are hit or hit hard.
*James Franklin then at Vandy, now at Penn State got in trouble and apologized for these comments last summer but...“I’ve been saying it for a long time, I will not hire an assistant coach until I’ve seen his wife,†Franklin said Wednesday during an appearance on 104.5 The Zone in in Nashville. “If she looks the part, and she’s a D-1 recruit, then you got a chance to get hired. That’s part of the deal. There’s a very strong correlation between having the confidence, going up and talking to a woman, and being quick on your feet and having some personality and confidence and being fun and articulate, than it is walking into a high school and recruiting a kid and selling him.â€
But the comments are so true, check out the best recruiters in college football and if they aren't old campaigners with a million contacts, check out the coaches wife and it usually shows you want kind of recruiter the coach is. Seen it up close and personal and the best recruiters in college football, wife is going to show that coaches 'recruiting skills'.....LOL.
*Crazy parents....well with 85 schoalrships you are going to have a lot of crazy parents involved and having some 'chemistry' within that parent group is always important because you see it all the time, parents section, certain parents can't sit with other parents and some parents just bitch all game while others drink the kool aid, definite pecking order in the parents groups, kids that play and parents of kids that don't play. Another mine field coaches have to be careful with. One of the top Illini in state targets for 2015 has a father that is known as one of the all time crazy parents and why many schools have backed off the kid, they don't want to deal with the dad because coaches have heard the horror stories, I expect the kid will end up at Illinois but....is the distraction worth it or has that parent learned his lesson? We shall see. But coaches definitely check out the parents when they are recruiting the kid and it's another factor in how hard the actually will recruit the kid.
*Hire assistant coaches whose wives will get along, keep the bitching to a minimum versus, the mouthy one's that a head coach can't trust. Smart head coaches always make sure the guys they hire have wives that will get along, huge part of the hiring process. Because college coaches nowadays are away from home so much, on the road recruiting, putting in long hours during the season. His wife has to be there to support, keep things together at home, etc....more pressure on the wife to keep things together because of how much time the husband is spending on his 'career/team'....you get a wife with a big mouth that isn't happy about her husband's pay, the town they live in, the support from the school, quickest way to screw up your staff chemistry is having a couple of wives bitching and moaning all the time. Beckman's 1st staff, season hadn't even started and a couple of wives of assistants he had hired bitching and moaning about attendance, recruiting, housing, both assistants now are gone but it's another nuisance head coaches have to deal with when wives aren't happy because that kind of thing affects coaches just about more than anything in their day to day lives.
*Junior days where kids show up wearing baggy clothes. Coaches are always sizing up kids yeah, it's like the horse breeding business, they check size, size potential, calf size, shoulders, how the parents are built. Baggy clothes and coaches can't get a good idea of how the kid is built, especially in the lower body, 'have to get them to camp' to make sure the kid doesn't have skinny calves, the build to add bulk especially for line players. One parent once told me about going to Michigan State when Saban was the coach and how Saban saw this parents kid (6-foot-4, 200-pound linebacker) and thought the kid was kind of skinny but once Saban saw the kid's mom (a bigger gal) he decided to offer the kid because of the frames of the parents and how judging by the kids mom, the kid had the genes to add 'good' weight so the Spartans could bulk him up to play d-line. Kid ended up at Illinois but got hurt
*Six hour rule. Best to recruit a kid from six hours from your school because if the kid gets in trouble, homesick, needs something, parents can drive to the school to see him, be there to help take care of the issues. Also since the parents can drive to the school, kids knows that they will likely be there to make sure the kid stays in line every weekend versus the parents having to get a plane say in Ohio to fly to Arizona to make sure the kid/player is staying in line. Also if you get out of that six hours area remember that most kids say that come from a two parent home say in Florida, those kids usually are going to be pretty happy to stay within that six hour area from their home so the parents can watch them play in college. The kids that usually will leave that six hour area say in Florida usually come from a one parent home and are looking to get away from the home situation. That's usually the coaches thoughts when they go out recruiting out of state.
AJ McCarron and Johnny Manziel, lol, nuff said on the QB-GF theory. Illinois under Turner recruited out 'highly touted' kid out of Chicago at QB, kid's GF lived out of town and wasn't 'the most attractive' girl, kind of looked like a younger version of the woman on the Drew Carey show if anyone remembers her...anyway, that girl was nuts, would come into C-U without warning, break into her boyfriend's apartment to make sure he wasn't cheating on her, one time tried to light the poor kid on fire she was so upset with him. Just nuts but that QB never really played much, had much confidence in himself and wasn't much of a leader but had a strong arm.
Offensive line coaches also have to stand up for themselves the most because if not, they get nice kids and that just doesn't cut it most of the time. Tried to explain to Joe Gilbert that theory on offensive line but Joe would always discount it and got nice kids that really....most are just kind of guys and Joe was fine with taking them because he didn't want any recruiting room arguments, Hiestand was the same way and took too many goats that other coaches pushed on him. And assistant coaches want their guys recruited so they can take credit for being a 'strong recruiter' because that makes money these days in college football.
Shawn Afryl was a kid that camped a few times at Illinois, when Wolford was the coach, he rejected Afryl twice. Wolford leaves, Gilbert comes in and Afryl's recruiter pushed Afryl on Joe and Joe watches film, sees Afryl was OK and decides to take him because Joe doesn't want to come off as a dick. Afryl was horrible but if an offensive line coach doesn't stand up because you can't fake that toughness, want to in a player up front. Bud Golden, Chandler Whitmer, Enrique Robertson...kids Zook took their commitments from for various reasons that others on the staff would go, 'why are we taking this kid again?' and when Lox would push 8-10 kids on Zook, other coaches would say, 'no, I won't coach that kid, let Lox coach him' which always led to interesting arguments and guess who usually always won? Old days.
http://illinois.247sports.com/Board/12/Fun-with-football-recruiting-lessons-learned-25798605/1
Note:Link may only work for paid subscribers of 24/7, I'm not sure if the info is considered VIP or not.
I'm not sure how I feel about some of these generalizations, but this seems to be a common approach amongst some coaches in the college ranks, the most prominently publicized being James Franklin.
As I like to tell people, I was lucky enough to 'learn from the best' at the top of their game at Illinois at Illinois from 2005-till-2008 when the real recruiters left, below is some of the 'lessons' I learned, fun facts I hope you enjoy.
*Your d-line coach should always be one of your top recruiters on the staff. Why? D-line recruits the hardest to find (especially top defensive tackles) and most competitive recruiting battles in the end are for top d-line prospects in college football. D-line coach doesn't have to be the lead recruiter on the prospect but will have to play a big role in closing the kid. Why guys like Larry Johnson (Ohio State), Ed Orgeron (former USC), Rodney Garner (Auburn), Chris Wilson (from Georgia to USC), Brick Haley (LSU), Jerry Montgomery (Oklahoma), Greg Mattison (made his rep as a d-line coach) are always some of the most wanted assistant coaches when a head coach is looking to hire a new d-line coach. All mentioned above not only good coaches but great closers at a big position of need in college football.
*Never recruit an offensive lineman that comes from money. An old theory by cranky offensive line coaches. Reason? O-line is the toughest to play in college. Daily you have to put on the pads, knee braces, get yelled at by a perfectionist line coach who is always pissed....by the 2nd, 3rd year in the program, a kid from money says to himself, 'do I really need to do this?' when he can go home and work for dad or quit, go party. Most kids like that don't have the chip on their shoulder to keep going, of course exceptions to the rule but on average, don't recruit o-linemen that come from money. At Illinois recruits like Rob Needham, Kyle Schnettgoeke, Ryan Sedlacek, and Mike Zande come to mind as kids that came from money but either quit or never did much on the field, no chip on their shoulder. Get kids that come from nothing or blue collar kids and when times get tough, o-line coach says to those types, 'well I guess if you quit you will go back and be the biggest strip club bouncer in Columbus or work the loading docks at Walmart, you really want to do that?' QB's that come from money also in my view now, don't take the risk, just don't have that chip on their shoulder to put the hard work in most of the time IMHO.
*Never recruit a QB that has small hands or an ugly girlfriend. Former ND o-line coaching legend Joe Moore always said that about the GF, goes to confidence a kid has in himself, how he carries himself, etc....funny one but....small hands has more to do with ball control, ability to spin the ball down the field. Russell Wilson, Johnny Football both short in stature but both have big hands and can zip the ball right down the field.
*Make sure every linebacker you recruit is the toughest kid on his high school team. Linebackers are the emotional leaders of your defense and if you get one that isn't a tough kid....can't teach toughness and drive I was always told. Also, not bad to recruit the 'little brothers' of former players because little brothers most of the time have that toughness, chip on their shoulders because of having to take crap, beatings from their older brothers, LOL. Always get those linebackers that have 2.5 GPA's, smart enough to pick up what the coach is teaching but dumb enough to keep getting back up when they are hit or hit hard.
*James Franklin then at Vandy, now at Penn State got in trouble and apologized for these comments last summer but...“I’ve been saying it for a long time, I will not hire an assistant coach until I’ve seen his wife,†Franklin said Wednesday during an appearance on 104.5 The Zone in in Nashville. “If she looks the part, and she’s a D-1 recruit, then you got a chance to get hired. That’s part of the deal. There’s a very strong correlation between having the confidence, going up and talking to a woman, and being quick on your feet and having some personality and confidence and being fun and articulate, than it is walking into a high school and recruiting a kid and selling him.â€
But the comments are so true, check out the best recruiters in college football and if they aren't old campaigners with a million contacts, check out the coaches wife and it usually shows you want kind of recruiter the coach is. Seen it up close and personal and the best recruiters in college football, wife is going to show that coaches 'recruiting skills'.....LOL.
*Crazy parents....well with 85 schoalrships you are going to have a lot of crazy parents involved and having some 'chemistry' within that parent group is always important because you see it all the time, parents section, certain parents can't sit with other parents and some parents just bitch all game while others drink the kool aid, definite pecking order in the parents groups, kids that play and parents of kids that don't play. Another mine field coaches have to be careful with. One of the top Illini in state targets for 2015 has a father that is known as one of the all time crazy parents and why many schools have backed off the kid, they don't want to deal with the dad because coaches have heard the horror stories, I expect the kid will end up at Illinois but....is the distraction worth it or has that parent learned his lesson? We shall see. But coaches definitely check out the parents when they are recruiting the kid and it's another factor in how hard the actually will recruit the kid.
*Hire assistant coaches whose wives will get along, keep the bitching to a minimum versus, the mouthy one's that a head coach can't trust. Smart head coaches always make sure the guys they hire have wives that will get along, huge part of the hiring process. Because college coaches nowadays are away from home so much, on the road recruiting, putting in long hours during the season. His wife has to be there to support, keep things together at home, etc....more pressure on the wife to keep things together because of how much time the husband is spending on his 'career/team'....you get a wife with a big mouth that isn't happy about her husband's pay, the town they live in, the support from the school, quickest way to screw up your staff chemistry is having a couple of wives bitching and moaning all the time. Beckman's 1st staff, season hadn't even started and a couple of wives of assistants he had hired bitching and moaning about attendance, recruiting, housing, both assistants now are gone but it's another nuisance head coaches have to deal with when wives aren't happy because that kind of thing affects coaches just about more than anything in their day to day lives.
*Junior days where kids show up wearing baggy clothes. Coaches are always sizing up kids yeah, it's like the horse breeding business, they check size, size potential, calf size, shoulders, how the parents are built. Baggy clothes and coaches can't get a good idea of how the kid is built, especially in the lower body, 'have to get them to camp' to make sure the kid doesn't have skinny calves, the build to add bulk especially for line players. One parent once told me about going to Michigan State when Saban was the coach and how Saban saw this parents kid (6-foot-4, 200-pound linebacker) and thought the kid was kind of skinny but once Saban saw the kid's mom (a bigger gal) he decided to offer the kid because of the frames of the parents and how judging by the kids mom, the kid had the genes to add 'good' weight so the Spartans could bulk him up to play d-line. Kid ended up at Illinois but got hurt
*Six hour rule. Best to recruit a kid from six hours from your school because if the kid gets in trouble, homesick, needs something, parents can drive to the school to see him, be there to help take care of the issues. Also since the parents can drive to the school, kids knows that they will likely be there to make sure the kid stays in line every weekend versus the parents having to get a plane say in Ohio to fly to Arizona to make sure the kid/player is staying in line. Also if you get out of that six hours area remember that most kids say that come from a two parent home say in Florida, those kids usually are going to be pretty happy to stay within that six hour area from their home so the parents can watch them play in college. The kids that usually will leave that six hour area say in Florida usually come from a one parent home and are looking to get away from the home situation. That's usually the coaches thoughts when they go out recruiting out of state.
AJ McCarron and Johnny Manziel, lol, nuff said on the QB-GF theory. Illinois under Turner recruited out 'highly touted' kid out of Chicago at QB, kid's GF lived out of town and wasn't 'the most attractive' girl, kind of looked like a younger version of the woman on the Drew Carey show if anyone remembers her...anyway, that girl was nuts, would come into C-U without warning, break into her boyfriend's apartment to make sure he wasn't cheating on her, one time tried to light the poor kid on fire she was so upset with him. Just nuts but that QB never really played much, had much confidence in himself and wasn't much of a leader but had a strong arm.
Offensive line coaches also have to stand up for themselves the most because if not, they get nice kids and that just doesn't cut it most of the time. Tried to explain to Joe Gilbert that theory on offensive line but Joe would always discount it and got nice kids that really....most are just kind of guys and Joe was fine with taking them because he didn't want any recruiting room arguments, Hiestand was the same way and took too many goats that other coaches pushed on him. And assistant coaches want their guys recruited so they can take credit for being a 'strong recruiter' because that makes money these days in college football.
Shawn Afryl was a kid that camped a few times at Illinois, when Wolford was the coach, he rejected Afryl twice. Wolford leaves, Gilbert comes in and Afryl's recruiter pushed Afryl on Joe and Joe watches film, sees Afryl was OK and decides to take him because Joe doesn't want to come off as a dick. Afryl was horrible but if an offensive line coach doesn't stand up because you can't fake that toughness, want to in a player up front. Bud Golden, Chandler Whitmer, Enrique Robertson...kids Zook took their commitments from for various reasons that others on the staff would go, 'why are we taking this kid again?' and when Lox would push 8-10 kids on Zook, other coaches would say, 'no, I won't coach that kid, let Lox coach him' which always led to interesting arguments and guess who usually always won? Old days.
http://illinois.247sports.com/Board/12/Fun-with-football-recruiting-lessons-learned-25798605/1
Note:Link may only work for paid subscribers of 24/7, I'm not sure if the info is considered VIP or not.
I'm not sure how I feel about some of these generalizations, but this seems to be a common approach amongst some coaches in the college ranks, the most prominently publicized being James Franklin.
